Just another 3.0 rebuild
 

I normally just read posts here and post mainly at Rennlist. So, Hi everyone. I'm new to the Porsche world, as I just bought my 83 911 SC back in December. Had a lot of oil leaks uncovered in PPI. Didn't really deter me, (maybe it should've). 6 months later I decided to drop the motor to address the oil leaks, mainly cam seals, rocker shafts, front and rear seals and oil cooler. One thing led to another and decided to do a rebuild with 123k on the motor. Got a thread going on Rennlist, but thought I'd share what's going on so far and maybe get some more advise from some of the engine builders here.
looks OK here:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384730240.jpg
Not so much here:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384730341.jpg
dropping motor.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384730497.jpg
out.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384730634.jpg
on the stand
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384730759.jpg
head stud removal
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384730877.jpg
head studs removed
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384731005.jpg
case split
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384731100.jpg

At this point I'm almost ready for reassembly. Heads were rebuilt at Zims. Did find #5dropped a valve from a broken spring. Piston was fine. Not sure how long it was like that. Dodged a bullet.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384731414.jpg
oil cooler back from Pacific Oil Cooler, 150.00 to clean and repair, great deal.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384731616.jpg
POC did the tank as well, replacement tank, mine has a big dent.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384731740.jpg
case cleaning. Ended up sending case to Ollie's for oil galley plugs removed and cleaned and hot tanked, probably wasted a lot of time.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384731839.jpg
doing the Supertec thing.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384731975.jpg
spent a lot of time here,
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384732041.jpg
example of exhaust stuff ceramic coated
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384732097.jpg
Zim's rebuilt head
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384732159.jpg
crank back from Ollie's (great people there)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384732207.jpg
parts ready for organizing, cleaned or new.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384732255.jpg

parts organizing by operation. Ollie's did the rods to.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384732497.jpg
assembly table with stuff just on it. Haven't gotten everything organized yet. Haven't unboxed the case I got back from Ollie's yet either.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384732551.jpg

looks good!
 

great stuff!
For me especially cause you are about 2 weeks ahead of me on my 78sc.
Just got my heads back from Ollie's and waiting on my rods from them, too.

subscribed to see more...

Bill

Thanks Bill,
I think some of the things I've taken from this are the stuff you think is going to easy, usually isn't and stuff that should be hard is sometimes easier than you expect. Tools that you need sometimes take forever to acquire,

To get this off.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384737913.jpg

Needed this. Took 2 months on back order. (not that I'm in a hurry)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384737977.jpg

By far hardest bolt to remove. My upper head studs were way harder than the exhausts, required map torch and double nutting.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384738061.jpg

Took breaker bar and jack handle to remove pulley nut.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384738146.jpg

Organizing parts is something people don't talk about. Really time consuming.
Parts cleaning is also extremely time consuming and I'm sure there is an art to it.

.
 

funny, my pulley bolt was also a major pain and when it finally came loose it made such a snap that I was sure I had broken the bolt. I didn't want to look.

Another lesson learned. Send torque wrenches out for cal well before you need them.
Dropped mine off locally, said 3 weeks on turnaround. Ugghhh.

Guys, I'm a little paranoid about rust getting on my the journals of my freshly polished crank.
Waiting on lab to get my torque wrenches calibrated, so may be two more weeks before I can start assembly. Sprayed the crank with PB Blaster, thought that might not be enough so I coated it with 20w-50 while it's sitting on flywheel and covered it with plastic. Is this enough?

Get you some corrosionX; it's the bomb.

that's plenty of protection, Mitch...

Thanks Bill. Starting to second guess a lot of choices right before I begin assembly.

I've recently started on a similar path, albeit with no plans to open the case. I'm in the cleaning parts while waiting for parts from PP stage. The main aim of my work is the old broken head studs issue. I don't want to hijack your thread Mitch but will be interested in your progress. Could you post a link to your Rennlist thread please.

http://http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/911-forum/753469-about-to-take-on-chain-box-covers.html

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/911-forum/753469-about-to-take-on-chain-box-covers.html

Thanks, Mitch.
Reading thru your RL thread was reassuring in that I am having all the same panic/worrying thoughts about digging into my motor. It's a good read. I'm sub'd.

that link doesn't work...

Good thread. I am looking at rebuilding my 3.0 and doing some upgrades at the same time. Like: 964 cams, 9.5:1 pistons, ssi exhaust backdate. Are you doing anything similar? Would be very interested in part numbers and suppliers if so. Cheers. BTW. Looks like they do a great job rebuilding the parts for you.

Road use only.
Looking at the MSD ignition upgrade too.

Sorry Bill. Think the new link should work.

@will call, no, I'm just doing a stock rebuild. Only because I'm trying to eliminate variables that might cause a screw-up on my part, piston to valve clearance, deck height and so on and I'm on a budget. Just trying to focus on as perfect of execution as I can and making the right choices as to where to spend money without breaking my budget. (I think that is the biggest riddle to solve, what do I replace, and what do I refurbish?) Cams and rockers have been on my mind lately. Maybe on the next one I'll do more performance mods. One of my main problems is that do not have the luxury of time. Getting blocks of time to work on the car is difficult for me.

Had a lot of good advise from guys like Ed Hughes, Reiver and Iceman, so hope that helps someone else.

Sounds like you're on the right track. Cleaning and organizing parts is 90% of the work. One hour of cleaning for every five minutes of assembly is the metric I use. Haha

Mitch, I see Bill went to Ollie's for the head work. Any reason you picked Zims for the heads and Ollie's for other stuff? Having my heads re-done may be in the near future for me.

@NOLAsc, mainly I went with Zims for the head work because they were local to me. Darren also really knows his stuff. They've been my go-to for advise. I thought it might be a good idea to throw some work their way. Zims does not have a machine shop and they recomended Ollie's for crank, rods and case.

Thanks.

Nice thread - about a month ago my wife and I were headed to a local rally run in her '83 SC, and about 3 miles from home the car started smoking like nothing I've seen before - thought the engine may have caught fire, but when we pulled over, it was all coming out the tail pipe. We had it towed home, and I'm thinking a ring broke, or something to that effect, and tore up a cylinder. It does run, but didn't want to take a chance and wreck anything else in the motor.

Whatever it was, it's time for a complete motor rebuild. The car has 143k miles on it, and I could tell this day was coming soon. :eek: But my wife loves the car, and it's been a lot of fun on the weekends.

Anyway - I plan to do the rebuild myself, haven't done a 3.0 before, and wanted to find out how much you (and other who've posted) have budgeted for a rebuild of this magnitude. It'll be a stock rebuild, no performance mods necessary.

But I expect when I dig into it, it'll need rods, heads redone, crankshaft, etc.

Also - could some contact info be posted to the shops that were recommended for the work that was sent out? (Zims, Ollies)

Thanks !

Steve

From other threads there's also Bob Hirst at Anchor Atlantic: anchoratlantic@gmail.com. He was quick to respond to me via email yesterday. Costs sound reasonable.

My car now burns oil/smokes on start-up too regularly, so I am going down this path too, and would like to know who people trust.

@sjsst41 - sorry to hear about your wifes 83. Mine is an 83 to. As a lot of the pros will tell you it depends on a lot of factors as to how much it will run. Replacing pistons and cylinders, I would say 10k and up. Not replacing pistons and cylinders and keeping the "while your in there" to the bare min, anywhere from 4500 to 7500.00. My budget was 6k. But I've bought a new clutch. Timmy2 built a harness for me. Replaced rocker shafts. Heads have new everything. New starter. New alternator. Probably new clutch components; throw out fork, springs and cable. Had a bunch of stuff powder coated. So I'm over that. Machine shop is a big portion of the budget. I made a 400.00 mistake, by removing a 3 case through bolts a little too quickly and pulled 3 o-rings along with them, putting o-ring debris into the oil galleys.



Cleaning out thread bosses with ARP thread chaser, cleaner. Replacing studs at engine to trans mount. Should I use a thread locker, Loctite, Permatex thread locker for these?

@NOLAsc. Anchor was my second choice.

Not much to do while waiting on torque wrenches to be calibrated. Applied JB Weld over all the case plugs Ollie's R & R'd.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385933247.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385933269.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385933312.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385933404.jpg

Did some more case cleaning. Installed right side case to yoke with new studs. Cleaned out head studs with ARP thread chaser.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385933768.jpg
Didn't want to use a tap, made me real nervous to think about screwing up threads.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385933742.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385933791.jpg
Finding a thread chaser was more difficult than I first imagined it would be, at least getting one locally.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385933811.jpg

man, that case is gorgeous!

where did you end up getting your thread chaser?

@ Bill, It's an ARP thread chaser from Jegs.

Another choice for a head stud thread chaser is a thread forming tap. Henry @ Supertec gets the credit for this idea.

McMaster-Carr

You can also use an old head stud to clean the threads. Cut a few lengthwise slots in the threads with a fine Dremel cutoff wheel or hacksaw blade. The slots act as passages for the gunk to collect in as you run the stud in & out of the hole

Good thread...stalled at deck height check on reassembly due to working 7 days. Outage over soon, should get back on it. Your case looks veddy nice. Good luck.

@Kevin, that is a good idea, and cheaper than the ARP clean out chaser.

I thought about making one from an old stud, but just wanted to makes sure I cleaned out the bosses as good as could. (translation: not sure how good I would have made the tool).

Think I need to add some more JB weld to:
here
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386035085.jpg
here
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386035119.jpg
and here?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386035164.jpg

Yep that's exactly where the casting of the case is thin, both inside and outside the case, around the metal "J" pipe that is connects the oil pump to the internal t-stat housing.

Thanks Kevin.

I would be reticent to put any JB weld inside the case. That 'window' inside the case is normal. I have only build a half dozen motors, and they all had that blemish, none of them leaked there or had any issues in that area. All of the motors have had hard lives on the track.

On the outside, I guess you'd be ok JB welding things. But inside the case, I'd be worried about it coming loose and breaking/clogging something. There isn't a problem like it is.

Thanks John. I'll just seal at oil cooler area.

Just be sure to inspect the interior thin spot for any pieces that can come loose. Peel any loose areas away and seal up the exterior, call it good.

Think I know the answer to this, but wanted to do a sanity check. Ollie's chamfered the left side of the case. There seems to be a lot of burrs that I believe will cut the case through O-rings. Should I attempt to deburr these, or just move on?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386643648.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386643664.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386643682.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386643702.jpg
This one I went over with a counter sink bit. Cleaned up the burrs, but still has a lot of chatter marks and I'm not sure I can make it perfectly square.

rough
 

Those sure do look rough.

It looks like the one you touched up is close to ok but maybe you ran the drill too fast or pushed took hard?

How about a fine conical grindstone like dremel sells?

You could practice on something else that is similar. but uts hard to have another case just lying around, right.

I used a countersink for aluminum. Get one with 60 degree angle. The one I used is 2742A514 from McMaster Carr

McMaster-Carr

I operated it very slowly with my cordless drill