Stuck Open Piston Squirters

[jpilcher]

Hi Guys

I currently have 4 piston squirters that are stuck open. Any problem running these?
Oil pressure seemed okay, from what I recall. Have tried soaking them in Seafoam for 2 days. These are pricey to replace. $34.50 each. Should I try soaking them in MEK?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards

John

[Flieger]

If $140 is too much then I think you are rebuilding the wrong kind of engines. I just looked up MFI fuel injectors as I might need some in the near future and they are $153 each.

That said, I don't know what harm the check valves being stuck open could cause, if any.

[Walt Fricke]

The purpose of the spring and ball in these squirters is to allow the engine, when starting up, to build up oil pressure to where the crank and rods will float on their oil film sooner rather than later. So you'd think that there would be a longer period when you are starting up the motor without the oil pressure you would want.

The same would be true at idle - some 911 motors, when warm, have quite low oil pressure at idle. Scary low. Maybe it doesn't matter, but scuffing bearings is a bad thing.

I don't think there is an issue here - replace them.

[Flieger]

That sound reasonable. My oil pressure is always very high right after starting because it is so cold, but I guess when cranking the speed is low enough that the squirters would make a difference. But like you say, you want pressure as soon as you can get it. Sooner the better.

[Walt Fricke]

Or consider an Accusump. But you have to remember to shut it before turning the engine off, and open it simultaneously with starting the engine. Otherwise it is of no help in reducing bearing wear from starting.

[cgarr]

They are a real simple little device. Not sure what pressure they open I should have checked the new ones before I installed them. If I was to do it again I would make my own and thread the hole for easy removal and install.

[jpilcher]

Looks like replacement is in my future. The threading of squirters is intriguing.

[porterdog]

Originally Posted by cgarr

They are a real simple little device. Not sure what pressure they open I should have checked the new ones before I installed them. If I was to do it again I would make my own and thread the hole for easy removal and install.

If you're going that far, how about making them maintainable and rebuildable as well?

[KTL]

JB Racing makes removable squirters. They're basically a set screw with a hole drilled beneath the hex tooling that allows you to insert the squirter into it. The set screw's male threads are screwed into the case (case squirter holes drilled & tapped accordingly of course).

[jpilcher]

Thanks Kevin

[Walt Fricke]

Lots of good things come from JB Racing. I didn't know about this one. I'd been wondering if some kind of screw in collar could be used here, and a drilled set screw sounds like a low cost approach to making a collar. If the spray cone from the squirter is narrow enough, shouldn't matter if it is set in a bit deeper.

Then there is the question of retention. Might the set screw work loose? There is no bolt stretch to keep it in place, so it relies on thread friction? Or does bottoming a screw help lock it in place the way stretch in a bolt does? Red threadlocker?

I've taken to using brass plugs in my case oil gallery ends because the aluminum ones I first used couldn't be screwed back out. They were so tight that the Allen key just rounded the aluminum where it sockets.

The factory method of squirter retention is so comforting, but after you have restaked a hole a couple of times there isn't much left to stake again.

[Walt Fricke]

As to squirter specs, what I recall is maybe three orifice sizes, with turbos being the biggest. Don't recall if the opening pressures differed or not. I suspect most of us who succumbed to the lure of the big turbo or GT3 oil pumps could get by with the biggest orfice, and cracking pressure wouldn't really matter.

[KTL]

Yep I agree with you Walt about the factory retention method. Staking means no way they're coming out. But also makes re-removal a real challenge. Plus staking them requires some considerable effort too!

You're correct that the set screw needs to be retained. Threadlocker is what's used as you guessed.

[KTL]

My recollection is the three sizes are:

Std 911 = 1.0mm
930 = 1.5mm
964-up = 2.0mm

There's a 993TT squirter I heard is a different length but orifice size is still 2.0mm if I recall correctly

I chose to go with a 930 squirter since I have the 964 pump. I know that sounds stupid but I figured a larger squirter like the 930 would be a benefit since i'm using the 964 pump. I wasn't sure about the 964 squirter fitment in my SC case so I stayed safe going with the 930 part. I chose a 964 pump because it's a relatively "cheap" upgrade from the tried and true 3.0/3.2 pump but not so spendy as the famous 930 or GT3 pump. My old pump was wasted anyway, so I had to buy something.......

[Walt Fricke]

I didn't have much trouble removing my squirters - I think I drilled the orifice a bit larger, screwed in a tip for the slide hammer, and out they came. Maybe I used a Dremel sized die grinder tip first, maybe not. But this destroyed perfectly good squirters just so I could clean passages which, it turned out, didn't need any cleaning. Yet you never know. Next time I do this I'll see about the screw-in system.

[jpilcher]

Hey Kevin

JB Racings web site lists them as Aluminum Plug, 12.0mm x 1.5mm x 19mm Hex, are these the squirters you mentioned. Or do I have to order new squirters from Pelican? I have an email into JB Racing.

JB Racing - Porsche Engine Components

Thanks

John

[KTL]

Hey John, That plug fitting is just what it says- a plug. It's like an M12 bolt w/ 19mm wrenching head. New squirters are req'd to fit into JB's removable fitting since you destroy the existing ones to remove them. JB may provide them already installed in the removable squirter fittings? Mike Bruns @ JB will set you up with what you need no doubt

[jpilcher]

Thanks Kevin