Dad's 911SC - I am finishing rebuild (long)

[Robey5]

Hey all:

First, I have to say that the pelican forum is very strong. Lots of good information and pictures here with descriptions that are certainly worth more than the price of admission.

To the topic -

My father has a 79 911SC that needs some attention. In short, about 8-9 years ago, he was pulling it out of his garage and it was stuck in reverse. That summer I helped him drop the engine and transmission with the intent of sending the trans to our 'guy' to rebuild/repair. At the time - Dad decided to take on a small amount of engine repair that made sence to rid himself of otherwise annoying oil leaks.

He was able to complete a fair number of repairs on the engine, but got very busy with life (starting a business, buying a few houses, selling a business) making the engine repair and installation fall to the 'back burner'.

The engine has sat covered for about 4 years with minimal oil in the pan on an engine stand in his work shop. I went (on Nov/23) and picked up the engine, stand, set of shop manuals, box of new and original parts (I will explain below) and brought it home so that I could put it back together with the intent to getting his cool car back on the road before father's day 2013.

Here's what he did:
Purchased an engine gasket set.
Replaced the breather element, temp sensor, valve cover gaskets, set the timing, installed the hydraulic chain tensioners, installed the gasket set for the timing chains and a bunch of other things to the 'short block' that I am still discovering.

To my best estimate, the motor was ready for the intake to be reinstalled and the engine was ready to be put back in the car when he put the car project on the back burner.

When I picked up the engine, box of parts, intake/injection system, books, etc, I decided that I was going to take a little extra care in replacing a few items while the engine was as taken apart.

First order of business was to turn the engine to ensure that things were not frozen together. When I got the engine home, I placed it back on the stand, and turned it on it's side, and proceeded to remove 3 plugs and blast one side of pistons with penetrating fluid (PB Blaster). I left it on that side for a few days and returned to hit that side again with PB blaster. The next week, I turned it to it's other side and repeated the same procedure. Last Saturday: I was able to turn the engine freely, cleanly and with out any resistance (no plugs, of course).

Now with the confirmation that I do not have to pull the cylinders to bring them to the machine shop and get them re-honed: I will be doing the following before returning the engine back to the car.

- Replacing the shroud (the one that is on the engine is trashed and the wire harness is new)
- Bringing the exhaust pipes along with all of the engine tin to a media blaster, and painting them high temp black.
- Cleaning the block, heads and various dirty components with de-greaser, carb cleaner and Brakleen and tooth brushes
- (potentially) Replace the lower valve covers with the Turbo style ones
- Remove the timing chain cover(s) to confirm that the tensioners have not collapsed, and install the 'collars' to prevent future failure - then replace the timing chain cover gaskets/seals.
- Replace the air box that has a massive chunk of plastic that was broken some time ago from a less than careful mechanic (before my Dad owned the car).
- Remove the flywheel, get it resurfaced and replace the main seal while I have access.
- Replace the clutch assembly (after the motor is back in one piece).
- Replace things (such as an exhaust manifold stud, etc) that needs to be replaced. Where things are not in need of repair - all applicable bolts and threads will be hit with a tap/die to clean it a touch more and insure that the proper torque is achieved.


I have the 101 Porsche 911 projects book: it is very well written and is an interesting read.

Sorry for the long read - but after having lurking for a while here, I value some of the experienced people here to chime in with their opinion so that I can get the engine back together.

[timmy2]

You are on the right track with everything you have described.
The next thing you need to do is replace all the rubber hoses and vacuum hoses on the CIS system. Replace the injector sleeves and o-rings etc. Perhaps even new or serviced injectors as well as the fuel lines.
A well re-sealed engine needs a well sealed and tuned CIS system.

[Sboxin]

Wishing you the best on your engine and car...your Dad will definitely appreciate your
efforts and time.

Post up some progress pics and let us know how you are doing.

Regards,

[boyt911sc]

Robey,

I have something to offer you and give it a serious thought............ a Pelicanite from Madison, WI dropped his engine at my place that needed a lot of work. I had it on my engine test stand and ran the motor for the break-in process. He came by in his family mini-van and drove back home when the work was completed. So all he did was hooked up the 14-pin connector, fuel lines, oil lines, CV's, etc. and drove the car.

This is just a hobby and I work at home. If you think it is worth the drive and the trouble of getting the engine to my place, you decide. BTW, this offer is only good for CIS engines. I don't work on carb system.

Engine teardown:

Test run and break-in:

Day of pick-up:


Won't be playing much golf this winter. So I got some free time with just a single engine rebuild on my schedule plus this one (???).

Tony

[Robey5]

Thank you guys.

So - I ran into my first 'issue' when taking the manifolds off. More specifically, the middle cylinder on the passenger side - I could not get the "barrel nut" off because there was something in the way of the 8mm hex T-handle I was using.

Attached is a picture (enjoy).

#1 is a stud that I believe to be original with the motor. It is a stud from the cylinder immediately next to the one where I could not get the T-handle hex head in all of the way.

#2 is the stud that is too long (duh) that someone put in there. This rose colored stud is able to be removed by hand, and I immediately saw that this stud didn't belong (insert Sesame street song...).

#3 Is a stud that I purchased from Pelican - as I wanted to get a correct replacement in there. This is just 'a hair' too long, and I will ask if I can exchange it for the correct one. Seeing that I know very little about the history of this car, I am thinking that the manifolds were changed at some point. This car appears 'not very' molested at first glance, but I have a suspicion that there will be other issues similar to this that I will encounter along the way to completing the puzzle.



On a side, I took the opportunity to do some cleaning last night. There is a lot of dried oil, road grime and other debris that this motor has picked up over the years that I am cleaning off, and consequently I am now out of carb cleaner, brakleen, and surgeons gloves. I will restock today and will continue cleaning tomorrow morning for a little bit.

On the list of stuff to do: find a sandblasting company in my area (...or someone with a sandblaster that will let me use it) to clean the engine tin.

[Robey5]

boyt911sc:

That is one hell of an offer. I certainly appreciate it and may consider it if at some point I feel like I am 'in too deep'. I think that I should be able to tackle this job on my own, as I have all of the tools and have a solid amount of experience wrenching. Partnered with the expertise on this forum and a patient pair of hands, I think I will get it back in one piece and running.

I do need to know if there are any 911 grave yards that I can buy some parts from because Ebay is OK for a few items, and some things 'new' are a little out of budget ($500 for a shroud!!). Any suggestions there?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Robey5

boyt911sc:

That is one hell of an offer. I certainly appreciate it and may consider it if at some point I feel like I am 'in too deep'. I think that I should be able to tackle this job on my own, as I have all of the tools and have a solid amount of experience wrenching. Partnered with the expertise on this forum and a patient pair of hands, I think I will get it back in one piece and running.

I do need to know if there are any 911 grave yards that I can buy some parts from because Ebay is OK for a few items, and some things 'new' are a little out of budget ($500 for a shroud!!). Any suggestions there?

Robey,

What's wrong with your old fiberglas shroud? Has a few cracks on it? They are easy to repair or fix. But if you need one, I know someone that was giving them away for almost free. I actually got 2 shrouds and free including shipping!!!!!! These are the kind of guys we have in this community. It would be a while before you would need an engine shroud. Keep us posted.

Tony

[Robey5]

The shroud is pretty broken up - beyond just cracks and such. Someone was sloppy about working around it, and the hole for the harness has been opened up, as well as a massive through crack. You are correct: it will be a little while before I am going to be installing the (new) shroud.

If there is anyone with a pair of lower valve covers (turbo style): I would like to get a pair of those in the near future as an upgrade. The gasket set obviously will be purchased from Pelican.


There are some other parts that I would like to get from a used source, but I don't know any "911 grave yards" that I could contact. Any input there would be greatly appreciated.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Robey5

I do need to know if there are any 911 grave yards that I can buy some parts from because Ebay is OK for a few items, and some things 'new' are a little out of budget ($500 for a shroud!!). Any suggestions there?

I have an SC (red) shroud that came off a low mile motor, I can take a picture of it for you if you are interested.. PM me.

[E Sully]

Robey,
There are plenty of used parts here. Post a WTB ad if a search of the Used Parts Forum doesn't work.
Porsche 911 Used Parts For Sale & Wanted - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

Also http://www.dcautomotive.com/

[Robey5]

Goodness!!!

That was quick - thank you for the input, I will be looking around at the sources suggested.

R

[E Sully]

A little note, buying a media blasting cabint has made things easier for me to clean and strip parts. Part of the cost though is an air compressor large enough so you don't need to wait for it to cycle too often. There are many different media, each one good for a specific purpose. The soda blasting is ok for delicate parts, but is not recommended for parts to be painted.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Soda_blasting

[Robey5]

I agree about the media blaster or sand blasting cabinet: the investment in a large enough air compressor is a constraint. I personally do not have a big air compressor, nor the room to place one at this time.

I spent a large amount of time over the weekend cleaning and preparing myself to make the 'next steps'.

Attached is a picture of the right timing chain. I pulled the cover to take a look at the tensioner. I did this because I was concerned that it may have 'collapsed' as a result of not having oil in the system for some time now. I turned the engine with the cover off to make sure that the tensioner was not frozen. All seems OK - as the tensioner moves freely, and keeps the chain very tight.

At this point, I have a few questions:

I am considering the addition of the "collar" to this system. I am assuming that the collar goes on the piston when it is at the lowest point; yes?

Do I need to re-prime the tensioner(s)? They were primed during the original installation even though it was some time back.

I have a list of parts that I need to get (gaskets and such) - if I go with the collar then I will be placing a call today to get everything in one shot.

[Robey5]

I have been looking at the "collar" part that would be attached to the chain tensioners.

It says in the catalogue that the "collar" is not to be used for pressure fed tensioners. What is installed (pictured above) is the hydraulic assisted tensioners; meaning that I cannot add the collar to this system. With that said, my plan is to use the leveling technique outlined in the 101 projects book for the tensioner covers (hit the cover surface with sand paper with the glass method) and move forward with the re-installation of the covers.

Am I missing something here? Is the collar system only for the non-hydraulic/spring only chain tensioner system?

[E Sully]

Pressure fed use a diferent method than the collar.
Oil Fed Tensioner Modification: ADD SPACER SURVEY

[Robey5]

Ok:

First - thank you for the tip E Sully. After some reading yesterday and some thought: I am not going to re-prime these tensioners - as it was done the first time around. Further, as I will not be removing them, I will not install the stopper style bushings. Instead; I will move forward with my next steps.

When I woke this morning, I had my eyes set on removing the flywheel, to bring it to the machine shop to be resurfaced. I am aware that this was put on with incredible torque, so I went and purchased a metric 12 point bit socket. Long story short, I could not get enough torque (even with a breaker bar) on the driver to get the flywheel loose. Question: Where can I obtain a flywheel stopping device (our host, I assume) so that I can put more torque on the bolt and free it up? I guess that I could get a chunk of metal (steel or aluminum) and put a couple holes in it to act as a stopper on the flywheel.

So disappointed I decided that since I could not get the flywheel free, I moved on to a different small projects. I removed the housing from the alternator and pulled the wire harness to find a couple gifts for me.

I will be replacing the ground (wire is cracked). I will make a new one of these.










Then, as I looked ahead a little bit to removing the wire harness, I saw that this 'thing' needs to be replaced (cracked, and in very bad shape).




What the heck is this 'thing' called??? To clarify, it is connected to the back of the alternator, is grey plastic and protects (to a certain degree) the wire connections to the alternator.

Thanks for those 'interested' so far!

[Ira]

Not sure of the exact name but it is a air diverter, from what I've heard the number three cylinder cylinder gets the hottest of the six. It directs more air to number 3 than the rest.

[Robey5]

Air diverter. Thank you: added to the list of parts that I will be replacing.

Got the flywheel off last night, I will post a couple pictures up in a little while. I am impressed as to the level of torque used on those bolts to hold the flywheel in place. I *believe* that the flywheel mounting holes are directional, (or I read somewhere that they are) and the flywheel is balanced - so you cannot put this thing on anyother way than one - is that correct? When I looked at the bolt holes, it does not have an obvious non-pattern making that the case, but maybe my eye just doesn't see it....

[Robey5]

Ok - for those who like pictures who are following this thread: here goes.

With the flywheel



With out the flywheel (oh my goodness those freaking bolts were on there tight! I had a 2 foot breaker bar on my socket driver to slowly get them moving!!!)




Next stop: Machine shop for a resurface of the flywheel. I will also be doing a cleaning of the area that is behind the flywheel, as well as replace that giant seal.

Ordered new flywheel bolts today from our host...

[DSPTurtle]

Nice work. Very rewarding... not many people on the planet have done what you are doing. Keep it up!