Never ending problem for the 13th engine rebuild (very long post)......

[al lkosmal]

tony,
congrats on finding and fixing the problem. perseverance pays off.

regards,
al

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by billybek

It could have been this...

I was doing the engine teardown when I noticed something that caught my attention. The cam shafts nuts were not properly torqued and that could be the reason why the cam timing drastically changed (?). Re-did the cam timing @1.26 mm for both sides. Put everything back including the whole CIS unit. Removed the mechanical tensioners and installed the new hydraulic tensioners from Pelican parts.

Billy,

When you get to an old age of 70+ years old, the first thing that deteriorates is your memory. I have for many occasions misplaced tools I was using or holding a few minutes ago. And had no idea where it could have been. I used to memorize and remember most of the specs needed for a typical 911 engine rebuild. Now, I have to rely on my notes and special instruction sheets. Without these visual aids, sealing a crankcase or tightening the cylinder head studs in correct sequence is next to impossible.

In the course of the recent engine disassembly, I wrote down the things I needed to check as I went through the process. I asked myself all the time what could have gone wrong to cause this abnormal knocking noise that was not present before the initial run.

Looking back, there were too many blunders or mistakes I committed in this particular project which I never had once made in the previous dozen engine rebuilds. Hoping that this recent experience would prepare me better next time.

Tony

[crashmy911]

Tony has rebuilt two engines for me. One a modified 3 liter that makes 242 at the wheels. He is extremely meticulous in the way he goes about his work. Glad you figured out the problem. Tony's kitchen is definitely the go to spot for engine work when it gets cold!

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by crashmy911

Tony has rebuilt two engines for me. One a modified 3 liter that makes 242 at the wheels. He is extremely meticulous in the way he goes about his work. Glad you figured out the problem. Tony's kitchen is definitely the go to spot for engine work when it gets cold!

Jim,

How is the engine doing at the track? It has been awhile since I last saw it. Who would ever think that I could build such a motor after a notorious moderator accused me of not knowing a thing about engine rebuilding? See post #19.



This was a 3.0 liter SC engine that was transformed into 10.5 :1 CR, crank fired, individual throttle body, Tec-3 ignition system, EFI, etc. and a set of cam shafts (Grind # 171E/149I) from WebCam.

Tony

[crashmy911]

Car is killing it at the track! Keeping up w high horsepower cars at track! Loving every minute driving it!

[crashmy911]

https://youtu.be/LGSdRdyNVgc. Video of my car with engine Tony built me, Hope it opens and works

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by crashmy911

https://youtu.be/LGSdRdyNVgc. Video of my car with engine Tony built me, Hope it opens and works

Jim,

Viewing the video for the first 2 mins. was not impressive at all. You were the at the rear of pack until you started overtaking car after car. I lost count how many cars you passed. I have not seen the engine on the track and tonight was the first time I've seen the engine in action.

Very impressive driving skill you demonstrated in this video. Considering that you have only a 3.0 SC is hard to believe how easily you passed those cars. Thanks for sharing this video with us. I am glad I took the challenge of building you a race engine you always wanted to have. Worth every minute of my time spent on a project like this one.

Tony

[911 tweaks]

nice crashmy911...!!
care to share your engine build specs, tire brand and size and the air temp when you took that video as u were driving and doing great on that track...!!
Nice build tony too...!!
thx for sharing...bob

[Trackrash]

^^^ +1
I only hope my 3,0, once I get it in my car this winter, will be that good.

[crashmy911]

Picture up above is engine on the stand. Tony built it and the specs are right there. Wish I could fined Dyno sheet. 242 at the wheels. Also has 48mm throttle bodies tmw into 46 mm manifolds that have been opened up and top so no restrictions. It could use some s car go headers and tuner says it will make 250 at the wheels. He left it a little fat. It's a bear in the pits because it want to flood it self out but once above 2500 rpm look out!

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Black 993

This is exactly what's supposed to happen (a rocker doesn't move until the cam lobe makes it move), and it's also normal for the rocker pad not to contact the cam on the non-lobe part of the cam.

I'm going to say something you may not want to hear and that I hope you don't take the wrong way, but it may be the best advice you're going to get. You simply don't seem to know what you're doing. There's nothing wrong with that. But is there some reason you have to rebuild engines and can't let a professional take over? It sounds like you've been chasing your tail for a year on this engine. If I read correctly above, it took you several months to figure out that the fuel pump wasn't working.

Follow your dreams even after some 'smart guy' tells you to stop doing it because you are not capable. The desire to excel comes within you and nobody knows better when to quit than yourself. Well, this was not first time in my life that I have proven others to be wrong. Several years ago, I was called hopeless and no hope of learning how CIS works by a well known and active member in this forum. He is still around but avoid or stay away from my posts. If I could do it, anyone could do it too.

Tony

[m42racer]

Where is it written you cannot build the same engine hundreds of times until you get it right?

If you don't mind the time delay and the cost of broken parts, if you are a customer, who cares.

If you were to do this for a living, it might be something to reconsider though.

[betterair]

Tony, congrats on this build.
When I saw Jims video,and found out you were behind this "modified 3 L",I couldn't help the, way way big smile, on my face. Nice work!

Ps who is doing your Dyno testing? I have a 97 3.6 l with a Koenigsberg ECU/ITB setup that I will need Dyno'ed this winter.
Bruce

[boyt911sc]

Bruce,

Contact Jim (crashmy911). I did the engine rebuild and all mechanical work for this engine. The tuning and mapping was done by some else and two (2) dyno shops as far as I know worked on this engine. He could give you more details.

Tony

[JohnJL]

I think I missed the last problem/cure? When you did the last rebuild and "noticed something" what was that? Was it the cam bolts loose a second time or am I misunderstanding?

Glad to see you got it done.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

I think I missed the last problem/cure? When you did the last rebuild and "noticed something" what was that? Was it the cam bolts loose a second time or am I misunderstanding?

Glad to see you got it done.

John,

Yes. I failed to torque the two (2) cam nuts at 89 ft-lb. and coupled with two (2) collapsed hydraulic tensioners made the situation worse. It was during the engine disassembly that I noticed how loose the cam nuts were. So I decided to put everything back together and did another cam timing and ran the motor. The big difference this time was that I made a check list of things to do and cross out as I went along. The result was a success. The motor ran very smoothly and the only tapping noise you could hear was by using a stethoscope. The engine has been picked up by the owner last week and installed the following day. The next two (2) engines are now tentatively scheduled for start up in early December 2016 and in mid-January 2017. What a roller coaster year 2016 for me and still have a month left on the calendar.

Tony

[Wayne 962]

Hmm, there's a bit of misinformation contained in this thread that I feel the need to correct:

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Moral of the story: To my surprise, the new tensioners were soft and spongy. I could compress the piston with my bare hands (?).

FYI - As I wrote in my Engine Rebuild Book, these tensioners are hydraulically dampened, not "hydraulic tensioners". The "I can compress them by hand" test is not an accurate assessment of whether they are good or not. In addition, as I wrote in my book, you need to properly prime the tensioners in a tub of oil prior to installing them on the engine. Failing to do this can lead to air pockets and bubbles that may cause issues. These issues eventually go away, but they can be prevented with proper installation.

Tony - A lot of these problems would have been prevented with the use of an assembly checklist - something that I advocate for by following along with the steps in my book. If you don't have a copy I recommend picking one up here: http://www.101projects.com/911-Rebuild/index.htm

-Wayne

[boyt911sc]

Wayne,

I completely agree with your post. BTW, the Pelican parts customer service did a very good job in replacing the hydraulic tensioners/dampers. Priming these submerged in a bath of oil did not work well twice. And for the 3rd. set, I followed the hand pump method suggested by JW and Gordon. The tensioners were stiff and hard. For some strange reason (?), submerging these tensioners in oil (compressed and gradual decompression method) did not go well compared to pressure fed filling.

I have the Engine Rebuild book written by you and considered it as a mandatory reference book for any 911 enthusiast. It was the first edition version with lots of typos but overall an excellent book.

In summary, all these mistakes and blunders could have been avoided or prevented. I committed these mistakes simply because I was not focused in my work and personal distractions in 2015 and early 2116. I could make a long list of things as my excuses but they won't fly.

What I have observed in this very long thread is the people with experience in engine rebuilding are more forgiving and understanding than those who are Monday Night Quarterbacks. Thanks to All.

Tony

[timchar]

Tony, you have been a HUGE inspiration to me in a number of ways. We've never met, (I live in California) however, we've talked on the phone for a good hour or more. You gave me a quick schooling on trouble shooting a 3.0 fuel distributor problem and you inspired me to do my first engine drop. ( I'm the guy who changed his first brake pads at the age of 52) I pulled my motor and decided not to have it rebuilt. Purchased a rebuilt 3.2 from Bruce ( flat6pac) ( another great guy). I've stripped the entire car and had a bare metal respray and I'm getting ready to reassemble. Sometimes, when others have more belief in you, then you have in yourself, it gives you confidence to do and try more. I don't have a 10th of your Porsche knowledge, however, I share your gift of perseverance and never say die attitude.
Thank you for inspiring me. Tim

[boyt911sc]

Less than 12 hours after the motor was picked by the owner, I drove almost 300 miles round trip to assist in getting the engine installed. Jason P. the owner and his friends busy getting the motor ready on a wooden cart for installation.







These guys never touched or work on a 911 before, but they successfully installed and got the motor running like the pros do. Well with some help of course. I had the engine tested and ran it briefly in my engine test stand at home. All they did was mount the engine, connect the electrical, fuel lines, installed a fully charged battery, pour some fuel in the tank, test run the FP, check for any fuel leak, and turned the ignition switch to START. No luck getting the motor to run that day. The starter was bad.

A few days later, I got a call that the new starter was installed and the car was running. So the next step is engine break-in as soon as the CV boot is fixed for the test drive and break-in.

Tony