3.6 liter engines, which one?

[hangar21]

Gents,
Let's say I'm looking for a 3.6 liter engine for my 87 cab? What are the peticulars to look for; certain models, serial numbers or will any 3.6 engine work?
I will be looking for an engine that requires a complete rebuild (maybe move to a 3.8), normally aspirated. Your thoughts-please.
Terry

[mreid]

I have a 1991 3.6 long block that I will be selling soon, but it was rebuilt about 10k miles ago. I like the 964 engines for the valve train, but if you are scoring an entire engine, you can't go wrong with a 1995 3.6.

[JJK78-951]

I have a complete 95 3.6 motor from air box to mufflers including wiring harness, ECU etc. 94K miles, major service just completed, all oil leaks fixed properly etc. Parting out whole car and about to list it all on Ebay. PM me if interested.

[Ultrafast993]

As everything Porsche, go with the latest that your pocket can afford, in this case a 993 VarioRam will be nice for that 3.8 RS style conversion.


UOTE=hangar21;9147614]Gents,
Let's say I'm looking for a 3.6 liter engine for my 87 cab? What are the peticulars to look for; certain models, serial numbers or will any 3.6 engine work?
I will be looking for an engine that requires a complete rebuild (maybe move to a 3.8), normally aspirated. Your thoughts-please.
Terry[/QUOTE]

[clutch-monkey]

are you leaving the head stock?
friend rebuilt his 993 3.6, enquired about putting upgraded cams in, was a lot of extra cost compared to the 964 motor. something about the rockers or some such.

[-Levi-]

There's a lot to this swap- go check out instant g and start reading- my choice was obd1 95 with 98 vram intake

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by hangar21

Gents,
Let's say I'm looking for a 3.6 liter engine for my 87 cab? What are the peticulars to look for; certain models, serial numbers or will any 3.6 engine work?
I will be looking for an engine that requires a complete rebuild (maybe move to a 3.8), normally aspirated. Your thoughts-please.
Terry

Any 964 or 993 motor can be made to work, some are easier than others, some make more power stock than others, some have features that may or may not be important to you.

964 all use 55pin OBD1 gen 2 Motronic DMEs w/ user replaceable chips, you only need basic hand tools and use some care to do so. '89-92 used aluminum intake, '93-94 used plastic, the plastic are generally preferred. Sometime in '93 the distributor vents were added this is a plus as well. There is also a RoW RS version w/ has the same parts hand selected w/ a different chip in the DME. For some purposes the mechanical lifters and robust 930 size rod bearings on these engines are preferred. All use a barn door style intake air flow sensor which works but is generally less desirable than the later hot wire systems used from 993 up. all are M64/01 and are rated 250hp@6100, 228lb-ft@4800 except M64/03 3.6RS 260hp@6100, 239lb-ft@4800

normally aspirated 993 came in several different flavors, all use hot wire intake air sensors which is generally desirable
US: all are 3.6 w/ SAI which you will likely want to eliminate, '95 M64/07 use 55pin OBD1 Motronic, M64/23 '96 -'98 use 88pin OBD2 Motronic which is generally more difficult to work w/ than OBD1. Most but not all have Immobilizer this is easily bypassed on '95s but more difficult to deal w/ on '96-98, '96 has a unique DME which cannot be altered, '97-98 have DME that can be flashed to upgrade the running parameters and/or eliminate the immobilizer but this is not a job that most owners will be able to do at home. '95 have a plastic intake similar to late 964, From '96 all use an aluminum vari-ram intake. '95 M64/07are rated 272hp@6100, 242lb-ft@5000, '96-97 M64/23 are 285hp@6100, 250lb-ft@5250, all have hydraulic lifters for some this is desirable for others not.

RoW: all use 55pin OBD1 Motronic, none have SAI, there are 3.6 and 3.8 versions w/ v-ram and non v-ram intakes and 3.8 RS versions w/ RS version of v-ram. as w/ US some have immobilizer some don't, it can be easily eliminated on any of them. All have hyd lifters. '94-95 M64/05 versions have the plastic intakes, '96 M64/21 up have vram, all RS have their own version of v-ram. '94-95 M64/05 are rated 272hp@6100, 242lb-ft@5000, all '96-98 M64/21 are rated 285hp@6100, 250lb-ft@5250 all RS M64/20 are rated 300hp@6500, 261lb-ft@5400
the non vram 3.8 was option X51 the engine type is M64.05S and is rated 285hp@6000, 258lb-ft@5000

there are also versions for tip, they do have different type #s and can be adapted to use w/ a manual but that is another topic.

I've used 964, and both v-ram and non vram 993 motors, hot rod 3.6 and 3.8RS in mine, the best fit is the 993 non v-ram, the intakes stack is a tad shorter that 964 and this eases the fit, both stock air cleaner and heater motor can be retained, the v-ram 993 intake is also a tad lower but the width makes it harder to keep a stock air cleaner cover and the whole heater blower. I'd avoid the torquier 3.8s w/ a 915 but w/ a g50 that's a non issue.

[Irhmsd]

I would stick with the 87 3.2. ONe of the most bullet proof motors Porsche ever built.

[Fly911]

If you are looking at a 3.6L to 3.8L complete rebuild, why not rebuild your '87 3.2L to a 3.6L or 3.8L? That would probably be both the best and cheapest option!

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Fly911

If you are looking at a 3.6L to 3.8L complete rebuild, why not rebuild your '87 3.2L to a 3.6L or 3.8L? That would probably be both the best and cheapest option!

the 3.0/3.2 cases w/ 86mm*stud*spacing*oe use heads w/ up to 39/35 ports and 49/41.5 valves on 3.0s and up to 40/38 ports and 49/41.5 valves on 3.2

the meat at the cylinder bases of the 3.0/3.2 gets awfully thin w/ 100mm bores(3.5l on the long stroke 3.2 crank). I'd limit it to 3.4l, using 98mm p/c and the long stroke 3.2 crank.

the 3.6 964 moved the*head*studs out to 90mm, these are good for 3.8L w/ 102mm p/c sets, w/ these it's advisable to use 109mm base bore rather than the stock 3.6 107mm. Both are available, the 109mm base is just stronger.

964 41.5/38 ports, 49/42.5 valves
993 non vram 43/39 ports, 49/42.5 valves
993 vram 43/39 ports 50/43.5 valves
993RS 43/39 ports, 51.5/43.5 valves

twin ignition, later more sophisticated Motronic 993>964>911, knock senors, hot wire > barn door etc. all are good reasons to start w/ a 964 or 993 engine and electronics

[930cabman]

Probably gonna set you back at least $10.k, have you gotten any numbers?

[hangar21]

Guys,
Thanks for all your info & data, the plan is purchase 3.6 engine-rebuild as 3.8 ( specifics are not yet determined). Install in car & enjoy. Then sell 3.2-maybe?
I've been working & traveling & have not been able to really look for engine.
Thanks for all your thoughts, pix of subject car

[tharbert]

But it's a Targa...

Good luck!

[Sboxin]

We did that . . . 1992 964 3.6 rebuild to 3.8L with Webcams 20/21 higher torque cams and 12.5 CR pistons . . . then dyno tuned by Steve Wong in California.

The cost is high > 10K
The oil cooling is difficult for a race car running 5K - 7K RPM on track

You already have a wide body . . . we did a wide body conversion and also replaced the torsion bars with coil over springs . . .

And then . . . after a few race events we had to get a 915 rebuild from CMS (but it was time for that anyway). . . now rock solid.

Bill V and MReid are very experienced in the 3.6L engine - and mreid may be close enough for you to visit and talk over your project . . . IMHO of course . . .

Regards,