3.2 internals 3.o case

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by emcon5

what are we looking at here, is that a casting artifact in the case? Or a crack?

What is the story on the red head studs?

upon seeing that same thing tom I dropped what I was doing and raced to the shop.... it is a casting seam mark, not a crack, but that was my 1st thought and second weak knee moment since taking delivery of the car.

the red head studs are a MM deal according to hennery at supertech. I revived the old "who's been hurt by MM" and he identified them as such in his recent reply.

just left dan at the shop after removing the cylinders and they had been bored out to approx. 100mm, show extreme wear on the surfaces, and he found what appear to be JE pistons. he will likely share a couple photos of them to see if they can be ID.

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

upon seeing that same thing tom I dropped what I was doing and raced to the shop.... it is a casting seam mark, not a crack, but that was my 1st thought and second weak knee moment since taking delivery of the car.

I had than minor panic attack too, once upon a time.

the red head studs are a MM deal according to hennery at supertech. I revived the old "who's been hurt by MM" and he identified them as such in his recent reply.

Good to know.

just left dan at the shop after removing the cylinders and they had been bored out to approx. 100mm, show extreme wear on the surfaces, and he found what appear to be JE pistons. he will likely share a couple photos of them to see if they can be ID.

I didn't think you could go that big with the 95mm castings, and to go that big you had to machine the case. Any chance they are real 100mm cylinders?

Toby, I put eyes on my old rockers, let me know if you need them.

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

upon seeing that same thing tom I dropped what I was doing and raced to the shop.... it is a casting seam mark, not a crack, but that was my 1st thought and second weak knee moment since taking delivery of the car.

the red head studs are a MM deal according to hennery at supertech. I revived the old "who's been hurt by MM" and he identified them as such in his recent reply.

just left dan at the shop after removing the cylinders and they had been bored out to approx. 100mm, show extreme wear on the surfaces, and he found what appear to be JE pistons. he will likely share a couple photos of them to see if they can be ID.

I heard they use Arias pistons. 100mm?

Doesn't look like there is any plating on the cylinders. Can you confirm any plating with a magnet?

[syncroid]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

I heard they use Arias pistons. 100mm?

Doesn't look like there is any plating on the cylinders. Can you confirm any plating with a magnet?

When I stuck my magnet to the inside of the barrel, it stuck like it was pure steel. When I have done this in the past with stock Nikasil, the magnetic feel is very light. Not these! Very heavy.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by emcon5

I had than minor panic attack too, once upon a time.





I didn't think you could go that big with the 95mm castings, and to go that big you had to machine the case. Any chance they are real 100mm cylinders?

Toby, I put eyes on my old rockers, let me know if you need them.

tom, sent you an email on the rockers. thanks! need a PP address...

what would constitute "real 100mm cylinder"? as dan indicates they are allies, could have this blind squirrel found a nut at last here?

ted at german performance will likely be call upon at some point... he's the crazy, eccentric guy who lives a couple blocks from me... ted did a bunch of work during my spec build so I got to know him & his local shop some. I see him sprinting to the minivan 12 pack of budlight under arm from time to time at our 711. I always yell his name and scare the shat out of him..

now, what pistons could those be?

t

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

tom, sent you an email on the rockers. thanks! need a PP address...

what would constitute "real 100mm cylinder"? as dan indicates they are allies, could have this blind squirrel found a nut at last here?

There are a couple of 100mm options that will fit an SC case, I thought you needed to machine the case to get them to fit, but looking back at old threads on the subject, evidently there are some that slip in.

100 mm cylinders to a 3.0 block?

ted at german performance will likely be call upon at some point... he's the crazy, eccentric guy who lives a couple blocks from me... ted did a bunch of work during my spec build so I got to know him & his local shop some. I see him sprinting to the minivan 12 pack of budlight under arm from time to time at our 711. I always yell his name and scare the shat out of him..

Ted is a really good guy, he did all my machine work. I am pretty sure he was involved with Jerry Woods & Bruce Anderson at Garretson back in the day. He is listed in the acknowledgements of Bruce Anderson's book.

[juanbenae]

ted is a golden oldie to be sure. I now know to set aside a couple hours if I'm planning on visiting his shop... he loves his formula V's, and when I say "his" I mean his from a pioneer in developing them sort of way......

have not determined if the case has been machined. will likely measure the cylinder base OD tomorrow to see if I'm being painted into a corner...

t

[MotoSook]

I think Ted did the machine work on Ralph's 3.5 engine years ago.


Yeah measure the spigot bore and report back. What size are the wrist pins?

[targa72e]

I bet if you look close at the cylinders they have been sleeved with a steel sleeve. I had a look at a Motor Meister big bore 100MM big bore piston and cylinder set one time. They made a Biral type cylinder by boring and sleeving a 95 mm cylinder. They then used a piston casting made for a GM product (Pontiac I believe) to match the bore and steel sleeve. If this is the case then none of it is usable in a proper build. The rest of the parts from the big bore engine I saw were a 3.2 crank turned down to use Chevy rod bearings and VW type 4 5" rods designed for the Chevy bearings.

john

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by targa72e

I bet if you look close at the cylinders they have been sleeved with a steel sleeve. I had a look at a Motor Meister big bore 100MM big bore piston and cylinder set one time. They made a Biral type cylinder by boring and sleeving a 95 mm cylinder. They then used a piston casting made for a GM product (Pontiac I believe) to match the bore and steel sleeve. If this is the case then none of it is usable in a proper build. The rest of the parts from the big bore engine I saw were a 3.2 crank turned down to use Chevy rod bearings and VW type 4 5" rods designed for the Chevy bearings.

john

Really hoping for Toby's sake that is not the case here, and his crank/rods are unmolested.

[juanbenae]

im hoping that as the pistons are removed today we get a better idea of the manufacture.

[syncroid]

Well it is not looking good here. I found the source of the oil leak. Number two cylinder is cracked. Big time. The cylinders are Kolben Schimdt that have 100mm steel sleeves pressed into them. Ted from German Precision is here now looking at all of the rest of the stuff.

[emcon5]

Wow. Are they standard 95mm KS castings, meaning the case is unfcukedwith?

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by emcon5

Wow. Are they standard 95mm KS castings, meaning the case is unfcukedwith?

ted is checking into dimensions and will be reporting back. dan also fitted a cylinder base gasket into the case and it seemed to indicate no case machining had been done.

the crank needs a Zamboni treatment (hockey reference) to clear up all the scuffing...

[MotoSook]

Amazing...

So this is the steel sleeve that's cracked and scuffed and the aluminum around the sleeve has cracked all the way down the length of its bore? Top of cylinder is actually to of the steel sleeve?

[KTL]

Wow

[syncroid]

Originally Posted by MotoSook

Amazing...

So this is the steel sleeve that's cracked and scuffed and the aluminum around the sleeve has cracked all the way down the length of its bore? Top of cylinder is actually to of the steel sleeve?

It appears so.
I found one last bit of ugliness. The cam spray bar in bank one is bent. Someone at some point thought it would be a good idea to pry on it. See last picture.

[KTL]

I have a decent set of cam housings if you guys need them. I suspect the housings you have are a question mark for reusing them, given how over-tightened the the rocker shafts were?

Or if you just need a spray bar, I have a few of those from some junk cam housings

[syncroid]

Originally Posted by KTL

I have a decent set of cam housings if you guys need them. I suspect the housings you have are a question mark for reusing them, given how over-tightened the the rocker shafts were?

Or if you just need a spray bar, I have a few of those from some junk cam housings

New cam spray bars are available from Porsche for a little over sixty bucks.
Part #930 105 362 00
Believe it or not, the rocker shaft holes look pretty good. The stretched bolts as mentioned before may have been used many times over. We always replace them on our rebuilds.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by KTL

I have a decent set of cam housings if you guys need them. I suspect the housings you have are a question mark for reusing them, given how over-tightened the the rocker shafts were?

Or if you just need a spray bar, I have a few of those from some junk cam housings

thank KT! I will keep that in mind. I will be taking the cam housing and my jig saw cutting and removing an inch of spray rod at a time. if that goes poorly I may look to get one, or both from ya.

love the pelican co-op happening here. tom is sending me his old rockers to have redone if need be as the ones removed are toast. you guys rule!

as you guys can see this motor was tired, tired, tired. had hoped to not have to go down this far, but with bob & dan of RMG im in great hands and when completed will have a solid power plant.