98mm Nickies

[chris_seven]

Has anyone used a 98mm bore 'Nickie' in a 3.0SC motor?

I believe that there is a slip fit cylinder that avoids having to machine the spigot in the engine case.

Has anyone tried them and is the spigot on the cylinder strong enough?

Thanks

[Spenny_b]

Hi Chris, I'm using their 98mm cylinders but in my Turbo, as you know. If they're the same part as you'd use for the SC, I'm happy to snap some pics before I send them back to Chris for reworking? (Cleaning them up before packaging, as I type)

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by chris_seven

Has anyone used a 98mm bore 'Nickie' in a 3.0SC motor?

I believe that there is a slip fit cylinder that avoids having to machine the spigot in the engine case.

Has anyone tried them and is the spigot on the cylinder strong enough?

Thanks

The 95mm SC and Carrera cylinders are commonly bored to 98mm so would be slip-ins.

[crashtest22]

We just bought a set of these for our 3.0 build. I will start a thread when I get the case and other internals back from machine shop

[chris_seven]

Thanks,

It seems as of the spigot strength of the slip-fit cylinder is OK an my slight concern is unfounded.

[Henry Schmidt]

The 98 mm Nickies can be purchased in both configurations. For my money, either configuration is a better choice than slip-in Mahle. They have proven to be stronger.
I've used both. The issue is, how well will the cylinders stay round?
Slip-ins handle cylinder pressure with no issues but are less likely to be round after prolonged use. In an NA engine, we have seen few issues other than ovality.
In a high performance turbo, I prefer the stability of the thicker (bore-in) cylinders.

Different cylinder, same issue, the 100mm Mahle slip-in cylinder has proven to be a poor choice in almost every application. The cylinders fail miserably when in comes to staying round and we've even seen cracked cylinders at the base gasket line.
They are just way too thin there. With Nickies, once again, no issues with breaking but slip-ins are less likely to stay round.

[crashtest22]

hmm...that kinda makes me wonder if I should return the slip ins and have them send me a bore in set
case is still bare and at the machinist

[safe]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

The 98 mm Nickies can be purchased in both configurations. For my money, either configuration is a better choice than slip-in Mahle. They have proven to be stronger.
I've used both. The issue is, how well will the cylinders stay round?
Slip-ins handle cylinder pressure with no issues but are less likely to be round after prolonged use. In an NA engine, we have seen few issues other than ovality.
In a high performance turbo, I prefer the stability of the thicker (bore-in) cylinders.

Different cylinder, same issue, the 100mm Mahle slip-in cylinder has proven to be a poor choice in almost every application. The cylinders fail miserably when in comes to staying round and we've even seen cracked cylinders at the base gasket line.
They are just way too thin there. With Nickies, once again, no issues with breaking but slip-ins are less likely to stay round.

How are the Mahle 3.8 cylinders, as used in the 993 rs, do they stay round?
I might be able to buy a used set for my 964 3.6.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by safe

How are the Mahle 3.8 cylinders, as used in the 993 rs, do they stay round?
I might be able to buy a used set for my 964 3.6.

The slip-on ones do NOT stay round and we will not use them.

The thick-walled, 109mm RSR ones are just fine.

[Mick_D]

Are the Nickies slip-ons?!

[safe]

Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport

The slip-on ones do NOT stay round and we will not use them.

The thick-walled, 109mm RSR ones are just fine.

OK, I'll stay away from them then, because they slip into a stock 964/993 engine without any machining.
Thanks!

[GMR911]

I was going to purchase bored and plated Carrera cylinder(to 98) to make my 3.0 l a ss 3.2. Is this a good choice vs 98 mm nickies based on the above statements?

[chris_seven]

So why do they not stay round?

What forces are being applied to the spigots to make them deform?

We have made cast iron wet liner cylinders for Coventry Climax engines for years and these have a spigot wall thickness of less than 2mm and never seem to move.

Would a JB Racing steel cylinder be a better option?

[Tippy]

Chris, if you don't know, how would we?! HAHA

Seriously, isn't it due to cylinders not being round on the OD and cooling/airflow differences across them?

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by GMR911

I was going to purchase bored and plated Carrera cylinder(to 98) to make my 3.0 l a ss 3.2. Is this a good choice vs 98 mm nickies based on the above statements?

My statements above speaks about a "perfect" world but this world in which we play and struggle is not perfect. These are after all, just glorified law mower engines.
The slip in 98 work just fine but like anything else could be better.
One thing that we have discovered is that "re-plating" or coating with Nikasil can be performed on K&S cylinders (Alusil). The material used (Silikite "SP") seems to be a more stable cylinder (lower expansion rates) and as such make for a better candidate for Nikasil coating. Much better? who knows but it seems from our experience to be noticeable in the long run.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by chris_seven

So why do they not stay round?

What forces are being applied to the spigots to make them deform?

We have made cast iron wet liner cylinders for Coventry Climax engines for years and these have a spigot wall thickness of less than 2mm and never seem to move.

Would a JB Racing steel cylinder be a better option?

Forces and materials are your bailiwick but simple observation and inspection from a layman's POV seems to indicate that ovality issues are directly proportional to cylinder wall thickness.

JB Racing makes a very nice product but it is just a Biral cylinder. (aluminum fins over a cast iron sleeve.
When we use Biral cylinders, we like to coat the cast iron liner with Nikasil.
This does three things:
It guarantees more consistent cylinder ovality (we have great faith in Millennium Tech. quality control)
Gives us a longer life expectancy
Allows us to run a "better" quality ring pack.

Note: coating a used Biral cylinder (Mahle) with Nikasil can also bring a used cylinder into spec for concourse restorations.

[chris_seven]

I would never argue with measurements but I am interested to try to understand what is happening.

Is it the spigot that becomes oval or the complete cylinder?

Does the depth of the fins change with the diameter of the spigot?

If you use a Nikasil coating on the cast iron do you use the same oil control ring tension as on the aluminium cylinder?

When we press out the ductile iron cylinders we use on the Climax engines - which we Loctite into place - they never seem to have moved and the Aluminium deck is always good enough to accept a new liner.

[Jeff Alton]

We built a track 3.5 with LN "Nickies" 4.5 year ago. It is back for a refresh. We should have it pulled apart next week and will measure for ovality. These were 100mm slip ins...

Cheers

[florent78]

hi

regarding a 3.0 SC engine with 10.5 piston

what kind of improvement (hp) can I expect using a 98mm bore so 3.2 SS engine ?

thanks

[prschmn]

I agree with Henry about using replated cylinders.I have to wonder if the ovality problems people have might be related to residual stresses in new castings since in my experience it's less of a problem with "seasoned"-replated cylinders. I'm damn sure heads warp-so why not cylinders too.