Anyone seen a Clutch set up like this?

[Jase77]

Hi Pelicans,

Thought I would ask your opinion on this set up that I have just removed from my car last night. According to the many manuals, books and this forum that I reference on the engine strip down, the Starter Ring Gear should have stayed on, or be fixed to the flywheel? However, my ring gear is pinned/doweled to the pressure plate and it came off the flywheel as one assy. The clutch seems to be a standard Sachs type for this engine and was performing well (1977 2,7). Every Google search that I have done (as does the factory manual) shows the ring gear as part of, or fixed to the flywheel.

There were no issues with the performance of this, so I am happy to refit it as it is. I am just intrigued to find out more because I really wasn't expecting it. Plus, I was looking forward to using the Flywheel lock tool that I bought!

Some photos for you.
Cheers,
Jason.

[chris_seven]

Completely standard arrangement from 2.2 litre onwards.

The manuals you are looking at must from for a 2.0 litre with a push clutch.

[Jase77]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your reply. I have the 101 projects book, The Engine rebuild book from Wayne, the Bentley manual, Bruce Anderson's book and a few factory manuals all for the year and build date of my car and they are all showing a different set up to what I have. Would they all be showing a set up from an older car??

Cheers.

[chris_seven]

If you look at Bruce Anderson's Book (2nd Edition) Page 66 shows the 1965 to 1969 flywheel with the integral ring gear and the 215mm Push Clutch, Page 67 shows the Flat Flywheel and the 225mm Pull Clutch.

Page 191 of Wayne's book clearly shows the flat flywheel and the ring gear mounted to the clutch.

Page 139 shows the flat 6 Bolt Flywheel


The 2.0 litre style 215mm clutch had an integral ring gear (1965-1969)

The 2.2,2.4, 2.7. 3.0 flat flywheel 225mm clutch with ring gear on clutch(1970-1984)

The 3.2 Flywheel for cars with a 915 with a 225mm clutch had a toothed DME ring for the crank sensor

The 3.2 with a G50 also had a DME toothed ring but a 240mm dia clutch.

I hope this helps

[Walt Fricke]

All of us who have worked on these engines saw at once that this was just a normal setup. Chris was more erudite then most of us might have been, citing chapter and verse. I don't know how the books fooled you on this for a '77.

As of 1985 or so the Clymer manual for 911s used Porsche photos of the 911 (1970-71) push clutch (but with separate ring gear and flat flywheel)to illustrate things, and explained the steps in doing this or that for that setup also. Caused no end of confusion. But neither Bruce nor Wayne would have made such a mistake.

The factory manual for our 911s through at least 1983 came in two sets. The first set, in two volumes, covered from the beginning through 1971 by having pages for later changes from the first motors at the end of its chapters. Then came the six or so volume set for later cars (mine stopped at '82 but the SCs were Euro only). But it showed your setup (which, when it came to the flywheel and ring gear, is the same for the '70-71s as for yours). So you will find pictures and procedures in the factory manuals for the flywheel with the ring gear machined into it as one part. But at a chapter end you would find the setup you have.

I think you can still use your flywheel look when torqueing the six big bolts. Just attach the ring gear to the flywheel without inserting the pressure plate. Probably need to use shorter 8mm bolts. When done, pull the ring gear off and reinstall the clutch parts as normal.

But why - I bought one of these flywheel locks but never found a way to use it. I think that only now it occurred to me that maybe these were made only for the 65-69 motors?

I've always just used a 10 or 12mm wrench. Screw an 8mm bolt in a bit into one of the holes around the edge of the flywheel, slip the closed end of the wrench over one of the three engine/tranny studs, and the other against the bolt in the flywheel - or the other way around(being careful that when you tighten the flywheel bolts you are putting your wrench in compression)and tighten away. I torque to 150 lbs/ft (you should not do that, you don't need to) with no problems with just that little wrench in compression.

[Jase77]

Chris, Walt,

Thank you both for good detailed replies. It's sometimes more about the reassurance from other more experienced Porsche folk than the actual answers to posts. This is my first engine rebuild on a 911 and I have been studying up for months. Following the step by step guides in the aforementioned books is great, but the moment there is something slightly different in the book to what is in front of you creates some doubt.

So, a sincere thanks from me in my garage in The German countryside.

[strictly]

off topic, but semi relevant, as you are using various books (and that is a great thing, i read as many possiable, cover to cover), and relevant to the clutch bearing....

if you happen to look at a bently manual for either an sc, or 3.2, the bently manual has the concave washer for the throw out bearing attached to the pressure plate, going the WRONG WAY, they didnt even correct it for the recent hardback editions so beware of that. The porsche workshop manuals are correct (as they should be!)

[Walt Fricke]

Specs are hard to get right all the time. Wayne's 911 book - which is terrific - had some typo type errors here and there in the 1st Edition. Someone recently came across one, but it had been "fixed" as others had spotted it. Porsche put out a very useful series of what came to be called (in the US) the "little white spec books" (from their white cover). I'm looking at one of them: 76/77 Models 911, Carrera 3.0 Turbo Tech ical Specifications" with a drawing f a 930 and a metric dial indicator on the inner cover. You would think this is the gospel on anything it covers, but I once found an error somewhere in it. I edit some racing rules, and for two years no one noticed a reference to a 2" wide rim in a table of allowed rim widths, and I just noticed it this week. Sometimes an error in a clearance specification or wear spec may not be so obviously wrong that it causes no issues.

I've had trouble remembering which way that throwout washer is supposed to go.

Are there any 911 manuals, other than from Porsche, in German?