Cylinder To Head Gasket - Re-usable?

Jase77 · 08-18-2017, 05:30 AM

Hi Pelicans,

I am approaching the first Cam timing set-up and I have followed Wayne's book, so up to this point it is a 'dry assembly'.

I am wondering whether I can re-use the (brand new) Cylinder head gaskets after they have been fitted with everything torqued to it's final specification? Are these a 'one time thing' or will they be good to use for the final assy?

It's a 1977 2.7S and the gasket part number is 912 104 314 00. (GE-Rings)

I installed both Cams last night just to see if they rotate freely in the housings and I am very happy to report success!

This is a big relief as I am having a HUGE lack of support from the very highly rated/expensive company that did all of the machining for me...............but that's a post for another forum on another day.

Loving this rebuild so far.
Cheers,
Jason.

Catorce · 08-18-2017, 07:45 AM

They do crush, but in this situation as they have not been run, I would reuse them. Prepare for others to disagree.

Flat6pac · 08-18-2017, 08:59 AM

They are aluminum and fit in a groove and crush. Why would you even use them to mock up the build.
You want to take a chance of a $15 part ruining a build, use it again.
Bruce

Jase77 · 08-18-2017, 10:56 AM

Thanks for the feedback Gents.

I used them in the mock up as I wasn't sure if the heads would be sitting correctly without them or not? If I am going to go to the trouble of doing the whole dry assembly check then I want it to be as close as possible to the final assy. However, this is the first time for me and the book said to dry assemble without any sealant only, so that's what I did.

My first thought was to sacrifice these for the sake of the mock up and then replace them anyway. I just wanted some views as to what was 'the norm'.

Cheers,
Jason.

Trackrash · Trackrash's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by flat6pac

they are aluminum and fit in a groove and crush. Why would you even use them to mock up the build.
You want to take a chance of a $15 part ruining a build, use it again.
Bruce

+1

m42racer · 08-19-2017, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catorce

They do crush, but in this situation as they have not been run, I would reuse them. Prepare for others to disagree.

You are correct, they can be reused as long as they have not seen any temp. They are designed to seal by expansion with temperature, not just the crush.

Use some logic here. If you put some brand new ones in, would they crush to the same thickness as the originals. If your assembly is correct you can expect the same crush and final thickness as the ones you have already crushed.

Flat6pac · 08-19-2017, 06:38 PM

I'll spend the few dollars to be sure, I know if I have to take a head back off there is a new head gasket going back on.
You don't know that a problem could arise until you light the motor in the car.
Bruce

Catorce · 08-19-2017, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m42racer

You are correct, they can be reused as long as they have not seen any temp. They are designed to seal by expansion with temperature, not just the crush.

Use some logic here. If you put some brand new ones in, would they crush to the same thickness as the originals. If your assembly is correct you can expect the same crush and final thickness as the ones you have already crushed.

You are also correct, and to add more to this, when you first heat cycle the aluminum, it expands. That expansion crushes the gasket further, to its final value.

Why do you think you need to retorque the heads after the first 1K miles. Because everything has heat cyled numerous times and all the gap is taken out by retorquing them, at which point they crush even further.

These gaskets are not like stretch bolts people. As long as you have not heat cyled the motor, they can be reused.

m42racer · 08-19-2017, 07:17 PM

If you build the engine as it should be built there should be no issues. If you have passed over things that should be checked and have not, then I guess you should be concerned. Why stop at the head sealing rings. Why not pull the engine down and check the rod bolts, or re check piston pin clips?

A some point you have to have confidence in your work. Confidence comes with knowledge and in this case maybe some do not understand how these rings actually seal?

JFairman · 08-20-2017, 05:04 AM

I'd have a lot more confidence in the cylinder to head seal never leaking after many heat cycles with new unsquished ones when you do final assembly. They aren't that expensive.
I wonder if Wrightwood Racing are better quality than Victor Reinze for these seals. Some of the other seals in the engine gasket kits are known to be better quality from Wrightwood Racing or they have a much better reputation in recent years.
They cost more so they should be better.

If this was an aircraft or pro competition level race car motor you would not risk reusing them after squishing them once.
If new ones are less than $100 to $150 I wouldn't risk it on a street motor. I'd put in new ones for the peace of mind and lower chance of any oil seepage or sweating at that joint down the road.

Jase77 · 08-20-2017, 09:44 PM

Great to read such a contrast of views and opinions on this guy's, so thank you all for taking the time to give a novice some feedback.

Cheers,
Jason

Walt Fricke · 08-24-2017, 02:25 PM

I've been through this at least once. I did something stupid, like cylinder in upside down, or maybe I put the heads on upside down (having a nice engine stand can be a mixed blessing when it comes to orientation and always working from the same side of the rig). After my hand slapped my forehead, I just disassembled, reassembled correctly, and moved on. No problems years on down the road.

Of course, for an intentional dry run, one would leave these out, just as you would not use sealants.

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

These head gaskets (CE rings) seal fluid not compression.
That being said you could run the engine without CE rings and never notice a problem.
I would be more concerned with the quality of the original gasket than question whether or not you can "recush" it.
I have seen horrible quality in this gasket from Victor Reinz.

356RS · 356RS's Garage

I don't understand why you would need to install the CE rings for a "dry assembly". The cylinder will seat in the head with the same pressure with or without the CE ring. Deck heights and piston to head measurements will all be the same with or without the CE rings. Am I missing something?

Catorce · 08-25-2017, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 356RS

I don't understand why you would need to install the CE rings for a "dry assembly". The cylinder will seat in the head with the same pressure with or without the CE ring. Deck heights and piston to head measurements will all be the same with or without the CE rings. Am I missing something?

You wouldn't need to. You're right. But the OP did, which is not a huge problem.