Time to rebuild 2.7

[Phillip Francis]

G'day folks, I have a 77 Targa 911S (2.7) with 145,000 kilometers (original in every way) which I will shortly be putting into service for an engine rebuild at a Porsche dealer who will give me a 2 year guarantee. It currently is using oil (2 litres per 1000k, including leaking). When it is hot it backfires a lot and isnt particulary pleasant to drive. The question is are there any modifications that I should be sure of having them perform as they rebuild the motor. Thanx

[ChrisBennet]

Porsche Dealer technicians are not really known for their work on older cars. I think it is a pretty rare occurance for them to rebuild a motor. Since the Boxster came out I think they generally just swap motors. The guys that know these motors have generally moved on to independant shops by now. Are they going to rebuild it themselves or swap it for a factory rebuilt motor? I expect the Dealer to be the most expensive route for getting a motor rebuilt. I'm sure we would be interested in the details of such a transaction.
To answer your question, update your tensioners if you haven't already.
I would repost your question over on the 911 forum as well.
-Chris

[Zeke]

I agree with Chris. And a common upgrade is bigger P/Cs to make it a 2.9 or 3.0. More torque.

[Wayne 962]

Milt, you are confusing the 2.7 rebuild with the 3.0L rebuild. It's not a common upgrade to install larger pistons on a 2.7 - I don't even know of anyone who makes a big bore kit for the 2.7. You can't use 3.0 cylinders beccause the stud spacing is different...

-Wayne

[cowtown]

I just want to second (or third) the motion that you'd be better off going somewhere else for your rebuild.

I tried to order intermediate shaft bearings for my engine from my local dealer.

Response: "What part of the transmission do those go in?"

[Britwrench]

I very much doubt whether the dealer will do the job, most of the work will be sent out. The two year warranty will only apply to Genuine Porsche Parts, not anything else. Unless they have the capabilities to machine the crankcase (an essential part of 2.7 engine rebuilds) I would be inclined to look elsewhere for a rebuilder.

By the way, Wayne, 2.7 engines can be upgraded to 2.8 and 2.9 or to 2.7RS spec. At the moment I don't think 2.8 p/c are available.

[kpfoten]

Hello!

I have a 2.7 that needs rebuilding as well. I'm just starting to look into places that rebuild these motors (and rebuild them _well_ so I don't get stranded ). Anyway, I'm in New Mexico. Anybody know of anything in my area? How is Motormeister for quality? Sounds like they've got a good thing going.

Would be nice to have some inexpensive mods placed...

Thanks!

Kris
'77 911S

[farleyd]

Hi guys, i cannot describe myself as a trained mechanic. But one could say that i am hard-headed..... (right Wayne?)

I was very very afraid about dismantling my engine (2.7S). Now that is done, i am very very happy that i did.

Knowing that dismantling is a lot easier than rebuilding, EVERYONE should tear apart their engine. You will learn a lot. There isnt much to be afraid of. As long as you detail/bag/mark everything when tearing up.

Then you decide if you rebuild it yourself or not.

But as i said, by seeing whats in, youll be less intimidated by the rebuild process.

- - -

I am waiting for Wayne?s rebuild book, and will definitly rebuild it myself.

Ive been scummed so many times by little-knowing mecanics that i cant do worse.

My one-liner is : TRY IT BEFORE SAYING YOU CANT!

Will keep you posted.

[kpfoten]

I'm looking forward to this . Sounds like Wayne's book is great! I still need to determine if I really need a rebuild, but I know the engine leaks and runs really bad. The car has sat for like 2 years I guess. I'll get my hands dirty soon... (I just bought the car and am prepared for the consequences)

[RoninLB]

I sent the engine in parts to Competition Engineering in Bodfish, Calif. for the machine work.. the owner actually told me some of the mods I had in mind were not necessary for what I was going to do with the engine.. IMO, the engine should be re-built correctly or buy a good used one.. which means good $,$$$

[farleyd]

>>IMO, the engine should be re-built correctly or buy a good used one.. which means good $,$$$

I agree with you guys, but an engine rebuild may have many goals.

Learning AND have a good engine that you trust.

I think it leaves us with two solutions:

1) either you pay top $ to have it done (and its not a sure thing that it will end up correctly). Ask a friend of mine who went to a reputable Porsche mechanic to end up with a 10K dollar bill and an engine whos burning oil like a derrick.
OR
2) you do it yourself (at least youll know who to blame!)

The third solution is to run from
3) try to find the cheapest mecanic.

Ill let you know when i blow my engine.....

BTW Wayne´s book seems like its gonna be real usefull.... when its ready in its final format.

Coming Wayne?

[PorschePilot]

Try Ollie's in Santa Ana (CA) for the machine shop work. They only machine Porsche parts and I used them with outstanding results. They will also mention what mods are available and what they will do for you. Bruce Anderson recommends them. Remember quality comes with a price.

[Wayne 962]

I too recommend Competition Engineering and EMS down here in LA. Walt at CE for the case most definitely. I don't recommend Ollie's only for the reason I haven't dealt with them before, but they are highly recommended by others.

Not to sound too conceited, but this book will indeed be great. It is soooo much better than the 101 Projects book, you guys won't believe it...

-Wayne

[kpfoten]

Wayne, is the color version of your new book available yet?

Thanks,

Kris

[Rob McKibbon]

Phillip,
Glad to hear you're rebuilding your 2.7. I ended up not having that choice, as I pulled a head stud and didn't even know it.

Anyway, I'm in the middle of rebuilding a 2.7L engine too. I'm going for 200HP plus (probably about 210).

You must do:
Pop off valve on air box
Upgraded Chain Tensioners
Check Head Studs and put in anchor sleeves

I searched alot of threads and found all kinds of excellent information on this BBS. It's fun and educational. I decided to totally rebuild since I had to take my motor out anyway.

I'm putting in 90mm RS Pistons & Cylinders
New valves and guides
New bearings
New time chain & gear set
blue printed oil pump
New rocker arms and shafts
Carrera oil fed tensioner kit
New gaskets
Reground SC Spec camshafts
New (previously owned) exhaust system
Blue print head and block
Adjusted deck height to 9.5 compression ratio
Ultrasonic cleaning and crack detection done
Balancing rotating parts to within 1 gram
R&R oil journals plugs for cleaning

I concur that you should not use a dealer shop??
A properly rebuilt 2.7 engine is a great engine and you will be very happy. The weakest part of a 2.7 is the head studs pull loose from the magnesium block. As the motor gets hot, it increases the pressure on the studs - this can vary by 50 to 60 Lbs from cold to hot. This constant push/pull on the studs eventually pulls them loose. The motor can still run with a loose stud, however it's known as running in the hand grenade mode. A good mechanic can easily remove the studs and place in proper metal inserts that will never let go. This with the chain tensioners and pop off valve make the 2.7 blues go away.

I am not an expert, or even novice; however I have researched this topic for hours and hours and concluded, committed and spent the bucks to have my 911 rebuild ready for spring.

Good Luck with yours and Thank-you to all the BBS Posters that provided me with so much great information. This board rocks!
(Special thanks to Stealthn, my Canadian buddy for all your help and effort)



Motor is out to see the Doctor........

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Milt, you are confusing the 2.7 rebuild with the 3.0L rebuild. It's not a common upgrade to install larger pistons on a 2.7 - I don't even know of anyone who makes a big bore kit for the 2.7. You can't use 3.0 cylinders beccause the stud spacing is different...

-Wayne

Sorry to be lurking over here again. All I have is a 2.7 and no car unless I put it in my 914. In which case I will want to do away with the CIS and raise the compression, add cams, etc.

By the way, Wayne, 2.7 engines can be upgraded to 2.8 and 2.9 or to 2.7RS spec. At the moment I don't think 2.8 p/c are available.

So as far as my statement is concerned, Arnold at Andial was the one that suggested originally what I repeated here. I believe that they have the Mahle P/Cs to do this.

[Phillip Francis]

Thanx to all who responded to my enquiry, I will continue with my plans and will advise you regarding the results. The guy who will be working on my 77 Targa has a very good reputation (lots of experience with 2.7s). The machine shop is also highly regarded. I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating in the spring once the weather turns warm and sunny.

[red-beard]

Any reccomended machine shops in San Diego, or am I better off taking the pieces to Los Angeles ?

It looks like my 2.7 may have broken/pulled cylinder studs.

James

[Rob McKibbon]

Too bad Red-Beard!!! That's what started my quest, but I must admit I'm very happy right now, just a few shackles short?

Try posting on the 911 Tech Forum for a quicker answer are not many surf here? I'm sure there are some good shops in your area. TTweed is from La Joya area, and I'm sure I've seen others - that's my dream land, I just love it there!

[RoninLB]

I use Competition Engineering.. they're up north by Bakersfield