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KTL KTL is offline
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Yep I was thinking the same thing for the hone grit. 800 is probably a good safe bet to get in there and polish off the material outside of the area where the rocker shaft typically sits in the bores. I would still pre-clean that area with a crude tool to get most of the crud out of there. You don't want the hone to spread that crud around the bore and scratch it more than the hone will.

That Snap On stud removal tool is the hot setup, no? I love that thing. I use it a lot to remove M8 studs in cam housings

New steel studs are $11.75 each here at Pelican. Typical used pricing is 1/2 the price of new? Call it $8 each for nice condition ones like yours and an even $100 asking price?

Usually the sign of an engine that's been opened up is the blue through-bolt o-rings. I was surprised to find those in my '86 3.2L I opened up last week, because I didn't believe that it had been opened since new and has only 77,000 miles. Does your case have the through bolt holes chamfered on both case halves? Mine only has it on one half and I found the same on my '79 engine case. I used a simple countersink bit in a hand drill at very low speed to chamfer the half that wasn't. A number of the pro engine builders here have endorsed doing that so I just took their advice. Makes perfect sense to me, to avoid mangling the o-rings at re-installation since they act more like a packing material than an actual o-ring function.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#2742A29

I'd also recommend rubbing your through-bolt washers on a flat plate with some fine abrasive. That'll ensure any corrosion buildup from age is rubbed off and the contact surfaces are as flat as reasonably possible.

I wouldn't concern myself with that scrape on the #3 bearing. It looks very shallow and hasn't done the bearing any harm. The nose bearing seems OK on the outside. You want to look on the inside where the crank snout comes through it. That's where the actual bearing wear would occur. These don't seem to experience much wear so i'd be inclined to reuse that bearing too. Just be sure to put a very very thin coat of sealant in the case bore where this #8 bearing insert sits. it's added insurance against leakage since the only thing preventing oil leakage here (and this is a pressurized location) is the large o-ring around the bearing insert.

That intermediate shaft gear looks like it got damaged with some kind of hard material. I suspect it was like that prior to the last rebuild or else you'd find some signs of aluminum chunks in the case somewhere? I would simply clean up the edges of the damaged area with a fine file and call it good. Speaking of gear tooth damage, does the picture with the nose bearing show a nick on the brass distributor gear? If so, I would be sure to also clean up that nicked area with a fine file.

If you hot tank the case, you'll want to pull the oil galley plugs (there are many of them) to make sure there's not any residual crud left in them. I'm especially sensitive about crud in the galleys because I hate areas you can't see and therefore who knows what's found its way into those hidden passages. As far as machining, the aluminum cases seem like they're stable and don't need any specialized machining. They're not like the magnesium cases that go all dimensionally wonky when you take them apart.
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTL View Post
Does your case have the through bolt holes chamfered on both case halves?

I wouldn't concern myself with that scrape on the #3 bearing. It looks very shallow and hasn't done the bearing any harm.

That intermediate shaft gear looks like it got damaged with some kind of hard material. I suspect it was like that prior to the last rebuild or else you'd find some signs of aluminum chunks in the case somewhere? Speaking of gear tooth damage, does the picture with the nose bearing show a nick on the brass distributor gear?
It does not have the through bolt holes chamfered on both case halves. I agree with your thoughts on chamfering the other side and will do so.

There is gear tooth damage on the IMS gear as well as the brass distributor gear. It is like one or two teeth and fairly minor. Something flew through there and and took a chunk out. I didn't find any blatant chunks of metal, but I've come across something odd. The oil pump does not spin freely. It feels like kickstarting a motorcycle, like it spins a bit, then harder, then free. Some old oil or maybe the chunk from the gear is in there. I did a little research and it should spin freely no?



Now I am even happier that I split the case after finding that.

I may leave the broken engine tin mount and just home clean the case. Shipping it seems risky and expensive since I don't think I need any machine work. What solvents or methodology should I use for home cleaning the case?

I removed the crank. There are some scratches on #3 bearing just like the other half. This side actually has more.





I'm at the point of removing the rods bolts. This was another reason to split the case. Apparently these rod bolts are smaller than earlier cars 9mm vs 10mm.

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Old 12-01-2017, 08:05 AM
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There shouldnít be rotational lines on the #8 bearing, its supposed to set in a pin on the right side of the case.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:21 PM
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Open the oil pump and have a look. Make sure to mark the gears so they go back together in same orientation.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackrash View Post
Open the oil pump and have a look. Make sure to mark the gears so they go back together in same orientation.

This is the top half of the oil pump case. Some scratches on one side of the housing



The top set of gears. Showing some wear along the edges



Exposing the bottom set of gears



Marking the bottom gears temporarily



the underside of the plate that divides the top of the oil pump case from the bottom. I found small chunk of metal. Magnetic.



Bottom set of gears closest to oil intake screen



A pretty good scratch. I'm not sure if it was the metal bit. It was a really really small piece of metal. Like pinhead.



Should I send this to Henry at supertec as a core or can it be cleaned and put back in? I guess if there's enough wear it wont produce sufficient oil pressure. Would love to hear seasoned opinions.
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Old 12-01-2017, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat6pac View Post
There shouldn’t be rotational lines on the #8 bearing, its supposed to set in a pin on the right side of the case.
Bruce
Hey Bruce, the pin was there. I inspected the bearing, and here is what I saw:





Not sure how the scratches got there since the pin was intact...
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Last edited by 75 911s; 12-01-2017 at 04:01 PM.. Reason: fixed photo
Old 12-01-2017, 03:54 PM
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Well I decided to call around for help today. Of the 4 phone calls I made, one called back. Glenn Yee of Glenn Yee Motorsports. Many of you are familiar with his oil pump mod and his work through various machine shops such as Ollies. Thanks Glenn! He told me all about the process of his rebuilt oil pumps and answered a ton of questions for my noob self.

I'll be sending my pump over to his business after the holidays in exchange for a rebuilt ported and polished pump. Glenn says his pump mods allows for 20% more flow. And there's a great explanation as well as pricing of his product here.

I also ended up taking my rods off the crank. Very easy job. I mounted the crank to the flywheel with three of the bolts and that made it an easy process. Just about all the rod bearings had scratches in them.



I also discovered a small fingernail sized chunk of aluminum near the sump drain. Definitely the chunk out of the IMS gear.

Around where the IMS gear sits there is internal case scratching and the bearing is worn to the copper.





Lastly, what is this gray sludge? It's mostly at the bottom of the case. The oil pump had a lot of it around it.



Some research suggests that it's steam mixed with oil as a result of a cracked head. So perhaps the low compression cylinder/head was leaking?


I'm guessing oil with something else mixed in?
The next thing I plan to do is finalize my build plan and then focus on the bottom end.

Here are some of the things I need to do for the short block:

-Decide on compression and piston. Leaning toward the 98mm CP with 10.5:1
-Buy ARP rod bolts 9mm
-Send the rods to be rebushed, balance them at home? Send with existing bolts, do I need to send with new bolts?
-Look into cross drilling crank, initial research says no. Wont be doing a lot of high reving or racing
-Machine shop, bore and replate Mahle cylinders to 98mm US chrome or ollies.
-Buy head studs ARP or stock steel.
-Glenn Yee oil pump
- send out and have crank polished, do I need to magnaflux?
-research oil galleys and piston squirters. -determine if I need to send my case out to have this done.

what other bottom end work needs to be done?

Thank you all for the help.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:30 PM
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So about that grey sludge...whatya think?
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:06 PM
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It’s nice see you have a thread on your engine rebuild. I enjoyed your thread on your car I read previously. I assume you have gotten an answer already but in case you haven’t the grey sludge does appear to be an oil/water cocktail. I find it on my oil tank drain bolt at every change.
Old 01-10-2018, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 75 911s View Post
Well I decided to call around for help today. Of the 4 phone calls I made, one called back. Glenn Yee of Glenn Yee Motorsports. Many of you are familiar with his oil pump mod and his work through various machine shops such as Ollies. Thanks Glenn! He told me all about the process of his rebuilt oil pumps and answered a ton of questions for my noob self.

I'll be sending my pump over to his business after the holidays in exchange for a rebuilt ported and polished pump. Glenn says his pump mods allows for 20% more flow. And there's a great explanation as well as pricing of his product here.

I also ended up taking my rods off the crank. Very easy job. I mounted the crank to the flywheel with three of the bolts and that made it an easy process. Just about all the rod bearings had scratches in them.



I also discovered a small fingernail sized chunk of aluminum near the sump drain. Definitely the chunk out of the IMS gear.

Around where the IMS gear sits there is internal case scratching and the bearing is worn to the copper.





Lastly, what is this gray sludge? It's mostly at the bottom of the case. The oil pump had a lot of it around it.



Some research suggests that it's steam mixed with oil as a result of a cracked head. So perhaps the low compression cylinder/head was leaking?


I'm guessing oil with something else mixed in?
The next thing I plan to do is finalize my build plan and then focus on the bottom end.

Here are some of the things I need to do for the short block:

-Decide on compression and piston. Leaning toward the 98mm CP with 10.5:1
-Buy ARP rod bolts 9mm
-Send the rods to be rebushed, balance them at home? Send with existing bolts, do I need to send with new bolts?
-Look into cross drilling crank, initial research says no. Wont be doing a lot of high reving or racing
-Machine shop, bore and replate Mahle cylinders to 98mm US chrome or ollies.
-Buy head studs ARP or stock steel.
-Glenn Yee oil pump
- send out and have crank polished, do I need to magnaflux?
-research oil galleys and piston squirters. -determine if I need to send my case out to have this done.

what other bottom end work needs to be done?

Thank you all for the help.
Hi Duan
You do need to provide new ARP rod bolt along with the connector rod and never reuse existing bolts..
is doesnt cost the much more to have your crank magnaflux..I would you never know there might be a ting cracks...
Old 01-11-2018, 08:22 AM
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I have a dumb question...
Do the bearings fall out? I mean... are they supposed to be rather easy for them to pop off?
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan K. View Post
Itís nice see you have a thread on your engine rebuild. I enjoyed your thread on your car I read previously. I assume you have gotten an answer already but in case you havenít the grey sludge does appear to be an oil/water cocktail. I find it on my oil tank drain bolt at every change.
Thanks Evan! I enjoy writing. Some of my posts get a bit "purple" as they say, but my litmus is usually the following: If it makes me laugh, I post it. Let the eye rollers eat crow. :-D

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankoporsche View Post
Hi Duane
You do need to provide new ARP rod bolt along with the connector rod and never reuse existing bolts..
is doesnt cost the much more to have your crank magnaflux..I would you never know there might be a ting cracks...
Thanks Frank! Will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakrat View Post
I have a dumb question...
Do the bearings fall out? I mean... are they supposed to be rather easy for them to pop off?
Perhaps a pro can chime in for the definitive answer, but in my case when I took the top half off, I think one of them fell out. The rest required just a slight nudge with a small screwdriver to pop them out of the case.

Question: If I'm sending my case to ollies for RR of the galleys and piston squirters and to fix the one tin mount that's broken off, how much pre cleaning do I need to do if they are going to hot tank it for me?

And what say you regarding Vapor blasting? Was thinking of vapor blasting the chain boxes and covers, and the valve covers. The cam towers will be ultrasonically cleaned.

Thank you all for the help.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 75 911s View Post

Question: If I'm sending my case to ollies for RR of the galleys and piston squirters and to fix the one tin mount that's broken off, how much pre cleaning do I need to do if they are going to hot tank it for me?

And what say you regarding Vapor blasting? Was thinking of vapor blasting the chain boxes and covers, and the valve covers. The cam towers will be ultrasonically cleaned.

Thank you all for the help.
Ollie's told me that I can wipe down any serious sludge that could contaminate the box I ship it in... but other than that, keep it the way it is. I guess they would prefer to clean something that hasn't had all kinds of chemicals sprayed on it.

I'm also sending my valve covers and timing chain covers to them as well to have them bead blasted/tumbled. They told me they do a 2 step process to make sure the metal is sealed properly through the bead blasting AND tumbling process. This helps against corrosion and protects the finish, preventing any need to paint over it.
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:42 AM
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Good day to you fine peoples!

Thought I would update my thread with some progress on my hot rod motor build. Of course, hot rod being a relative term. Overall, my build will be somewhat mild comparatively speaking.

Shortly after briefly entertaining a turbo conversion on the motor, I came across an intake deal from a member that was selling off his project car and motor. His setup appealed to me as it was fairly unique, looked amazing, and was priced right.

The intake is:

GSXR-1000 Throttle Bodies

They come bolted together in groups of 4 off a 2001? Suzuki GSXR.



They consist of a primary and a secondary throttle valve. The secondary valve at the top will be removed and the holes filled.



I'm deciding on how to fill the holes. Some say a plug with JB weld. JB weld can be broken down with gasoline so I don't think I'll go that route. Here you can see the top secondary holes:



The red circle shows where I'll need to weld on a tab extension on the two middle throttle bodies. Since I'm spacing the throttle bodies out, i'll need to extend these aproximately 1 inch to retain the stock functionality of one throttle cable controlling one entire bank of tb's. Each tab has a screw adjustment for idle, so retaining the stock setup is important in that regard.

The GSXR 1000 TB's have a 42mm ID which, from my research, is just about perfect for my mild 3.2 motor. I'm thinking Euro 10.3:1 95 Pistons and a hotter cam. Stock heads, and the SSI and custom dual out off my 2.7 motor. All of this is going to keep my total build goal budget to under 10k. (we'll see)

The TB's themselves aren't that pretty as they have shafts and mounting boss' that are used for the Suzuki bike. On the plus side, your eye will be drawn to these awesome velocity stacks, and I like that they are vertical as opposed to an angled setup off a Triumph bike. The guy who I bought them from designed them to be a straight shot for each head. Each TB uses it's own custom manifold. Aluminum tubing TIG welded to 3.2 flanges.



Here's a mock-up I did to see how it would look. Each TB has a turned aluminum velocity stack that bells out to 50mm. Each stack has a custom tea strainer style filter made by BBRacing.



The velocity stacks will have to be clamped onto the throttle bodies in some manner. The manifolds are secured by a Porsche rubber boot with Porsche clamps. For the stack clamp, I'll probably put the stacks on a lathe and machine a groove a few mm above the base. Then I'll have some custom aluminum clamps made that use the lip on the TB and the groove in the stack to secure it all.



The nice thing about buying complete setups off a bike is that you get things like a throttle position sensor. The ends also have a nice cam and cable mount for throttle cable.

In the red circle you can see one of three long bolts that secure the 4 TB's together on the bike. I'll be replacing this with threaded brass rod and two M5 nuts on each corner to properly secure and space the throttle bodies on the 3.2



The package also included:
Microsquirt ECU with 8' harness and USB cable for logging etc.
External 1BAR MAP sensor and harness
Bosch 6cyl coil-pack (0221503002) for wasted-spark distributorless-ignition
Bosch ignition module (0227100203) and wiring harness (to interface between ECU and coil-pack)
Intake Air Temp Sensor and Plug
Porsche-specific trigger wheel sensor bracket + VR trigger sensor
3.2 Rothsport pulley
36-1 trigger wheel (that mounts to Rothsport pulley)
Dizzy port plug
Innovate LC-2 wideband (with gauge) for tuning

The microsquirt is a compact MSII in a sealed body.

From my research I've found 3 other successful installs using GSXR throttle bodies so I'm not in uncharted territory. Still, it clearly isn't as popular as the Triumph based systems. The Triumph TB is a prettier unit, but it does angle in. It also uses a curved manifold system, whereas the GSXR will be straight shots into the intake.

The shroud that came on my core 3.2 was a beat up 2.7 that had been primed and painted black. It also suffered a few broken tabs. I removed the metal directing fin at the back and I've sanded it down. I've also sanded around the extra holes that I wont need in order to back fill with a small fiberglass kit that I picked up.



Extra holes include the pipe for the charcoal canister, and mounting clip holes for harnesses and ignition wires.



My first foray into fiberglass work, but it seems pretty simple.



I'll paint it gloss or satin black me thinks. If it turns out poorly, I'll opt for a raw amber shroud but they are sooooo expensive! The nice thing about the amber is I can go with black valve covers. If I go with a black shroud, I think raw or silver powdercoated/cerakote valve covers is the way. Maybe vapor blast the outside and seal.

Next up on the engine is the bottom end. Got a little side tracked with research on what to build out, but I think my plan is formulating finally. Have a great weekend.
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Old 03-09-2018, 05:35 AM
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Just a little update here. Thanks to Trophy Performance here in Las Vegas for cleaning up my chain box housings / covers and valve covers.



The valve covers had blue powdercoat on them so I spent a week removing the powdercoat and then had them soda/media blasted. Late 87 covers, but they've lived a hard life. Might sell and put toward some billet covers. Though those are a bit blingy for my taste.

The advantage of the billet covers would be a truly flat cover, and less prone to leaks. I did sand these down a bit on a piece of glass. There's pitting on some of the cover surface so to hide that I may have to powdercoat again. The one thing I didn't like about powdercoating the valve covers was that the powdercoat can come off and create a soft lip around the aluminum washers. Even if you just hand torque them down. I might try cerakote for a thinner harder finish.

I'm in the market for some Euro spec 3.2 pistons. If you've removed some from your Euro spec 3.2 and have a deal on some clean pistons with ring lands in spec, PM me. Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-31-2018, 08:01 AM
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