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AirBorne!
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NE Ohio
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At the end of the day its a classic case of cost vs benefits. But I still daydream of MFI on that car. I have time to make a final decision. I'm just getting opinions from diff folks. Who knows? Maybe I'll just strap on JATO packs to give it that EFI/MFI feel coming out of a corner.
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2008 997 C4S Silver, Kitty Cat, 1989 3.4 911 Silver Carrera, Erica, 1989 944S2 NASA GTS2, Iris, 1988 944 DE Car, Backdate 1970 3.0 PMO from a 1975S - Roxanne, 1970 911T widebody w 3.0 and megasquirt - sold to a great home to be reborne as a 911 ST, 1967 912 soon to become 912/6 with a 67s motor, 89 VW Cabriolet - 2.0 conversion - sold and missed
Old 01-12-2018, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al lkosmal View Post
People, in general, are way more comfortable with carbs, than MFI or the voodoo EFI. Most DIYs or mechanics can work with carbs, but not so much with MFI or EFI.

I like em all, but I personally find it easier to dial in a set of EFI/ITBs with my laptop, than dialing in a set of Webers/PMOs. Much easier to make changes on the fly than changing jets, etc.

That's just me, i could be wrong...........

regards,
al
Your 100% right Al. Boy sometimes I wish I could just plug in a laptop to the MFI pump!
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:08 AM
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Mark.....I might have something for you in a year or so.

regards,
al
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[B]Current projects: 69-911.5, Previous:73 911X (off to SanFrancisco/racing in Germany).77 911S (NY), 71E (France/Corsica), 66-912 ( France), 1970 914X (Wisconsin) 76 911S roller..off to Florida/Germany
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:33 AM
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AirBorne!
 
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Carbs vs MFI

Today I'm thinking MFI.
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2008 997 C4S Silver, Kitty Cat, 1989 3.4 911 Silver Carrera, Erica, 1989 944S2 NASA GTS2, Iris, 1988 944 DE Car, Backdate 1970 3.0 PMO from a 1975S - Roxanne, 1970 911T widebody w 3.0 and megasquirt - sold to a great home to be reborne as a 911 ST, 1967 912 soon to become 912/6 with a 67s motor, 89 VW Cabriolet - 2.0 conversion - sold and missed
Old 01-13-2018, 08:13 AM
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It can be lots of fun..........

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Old 01-13-2018, 09:30 AM
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wow...looking good, mark.
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[B]Current projects: 69-911.5, Previous:73 911X (off to SanFrancisco/racing in Germany).77 911S (NY), 71E (France/Corsica), 66-912 ( France), 1970 914X (Wisconsin) 76 911S roller..off to Florida/Germany
RGruppe #669,
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 356RS View Post
It can be lots of fun..........

High throttle body injectors, yea!
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:11 PM
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Mark, how did you mount the pump, one would typically weld studs to the case.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 304065 View Post
Mark, how did you mount the pump, one would typically weld studs to the case.
Well I forgot about the early case's not having the MFI mount studs. That makes it a little more money to have the case modified. I've never had it done and it seems it would be $$$$. Maybe not worth the hassle.
The engine in my photo is a 76 turbo case so has the mount.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:17 PM
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AirBorne!
 
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Ruh Roh, Mark.... approx how much to have a MFI perch installed on my 67s case? More or less than a thousand bucks?
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2008 997 C4S Silver, Kitty Cat, 1989 3.4 911 Silver Carrera, Erica, 1989 944S2 NASA GTS2, Iris, 1988 944 DE Car, Backdate 1970 3.0 PMO from a 1975S - Roxanne, 1970 911T widebody w 3.0 and megasquirt - sold to a great home to be reborne as a 911 ST, 1967 912 soon to become 912/6 with a 67s motor, 89 VW Cabriolet - 2.0 conversion - sold and missed
Old 01-15-2018, 03:43 AM
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AirBorne!
 
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@Mark, if that's an early turbo case... is that a 2.8 liter special engine (faapgar special) w the 66mm crank, the engine Porsche never made?
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2008 997 C4S Silver, Kitty Cat, 1989 3.4 911 Silver Carrera, Erica, 1989 944S2 NASA GTS2, Iris, 1988 944 DE Car, Backdate 1970 3.0 PMO from a 1975S - Roxanne, 1970 911T widebody w 3.0 and megasquirt - sold to a great home to be reborne as a 911 ST, 1967 912 soon to become 912/6 with a 67s motor, 89 VW Cabriolet - 2.0 conversion - sold and missed

Last edited by JackMan; 01-15-2018 at 03:53 AM..
Old 01-15-2018, 03:44 AM
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Are your heads drilled for MFI injectors? You can run ITB EFI with MFI stacks. This utilizes your existing parts stash. Provides the best of both worlds and you don't have to modify the case to add injection pump mount.
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Old 01-15-2018, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JackMan View Post
Ruh Roh, Mark.... approx how much to have a MFI perch installed on my 67s case? More or less than a thousand bucks?
Thus it begins.
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackMan View Post
Ruh Roh, Mark.... approx how much to have a MFI perch installed on my 67s case? More or less than a thousand bucks?
Ollie's can do the MFI perch mod. I don't remember what the cost is.

The Turbo case engine I posted is a 66mm X 100mm, so a 3.1 liter short stroke.
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Old 01-15-2018, 06:08 AM
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AirBorne!
 
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decisions, decisions
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2008 997 C4S Silver, Kitty Cat, 1989 3.4 911 Silver Carrera, Erica, 1989 944S2 NASA GTS2, Iris, 1988 944 DE Car, Backdate 1970 3.0 PMO from a 1975S - Roxanne, 1970 911T widebody w 3.0 and megasquirt - sold to a great home to be reborne as a 911 ST, 1967 912 soon to become 912/6 with a 67s motor, 89 VW Cabriolet - 2.0 conversion - sold and missed
Old 01-28-2018, 09:14 AM
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Do the MFI or you will just regret not doing it in the future.

Can always be pulled and sold if you don't like it.
Old 01-28-2018, 12:07 PM
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AirBorne!
 
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@ eastbay, so I'm told. Hmmmmm.
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2008 997 C4S Silver, Kitty Cat, 1989 3.4 911 Silver Carrera, Erica, 1989 944S2 NASA GTS2, Iris, 1988 944 DE Car, Backdate 1970 3.0 PMO from a 1975S - Roxanne, 1970 911T widebody w 3.0 and megasquirt - sold to a great home to be reborne as a 911 ST, 1967 912 soon to become 912/6 with a 67s motor, 89 VW Cabriolet - 2.0 conversion - sold and missed
Old 01-29-2018, 05:59 AM
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Question for the team: beyond the modifications and costs the OP would require, is it accurate to portray MFI as being difficult to live with once installed? My frame of reference is all Alfa Romeo based, having had a GTV equipped with their SPICA system for over 30 years. Very similar system, right...developed originally from diesel pump technology, IIRC.

Full disclosure: I think it's very cool, especially on a good looking motor...think MB 300 Gullwing.

The SPICA system is dead reliable, and maybe more so today than when it was new due to the clever people (here in the US) who took the time to understand it and provide information/service to owners. If it's set-up by the book (pump calibrated; linkage adjusted right; timed right with its drive belt; mixture set; healthy electric fuel supply pump, clean filters and good ignition system) then, at least for the Alfa, it's something you can just leave alone. The two common failures are a rack spring in the pump breaks (has happened to me once) and a thermostatic bulb that provides rich to lean modulation for cold starts which can lose it's mojo (mine has thus far been fine). Since the "map" is essentially the shape of the internal space cam, there's not much to futz with.

Is the Bosch/Kugelfischer system less reliable? I do remember reading that 911E's had good driveability but not the best MPG's. Is the system disparaged, like SU carbs were by Chebby mechanics, simply due to lack of understanding, or does it, as installed on a 911 engine, have real reliability issues?

Thanks in advance for some education...John in CT
Old 01-29-2018, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeffries View Post
Question for the team: beyond the modifications and costs the OP would require, is it accurate to portray MFI as being difficult to live with once installed? My frame of reference is all Alfa Romeo based, having had a GTV equipped with their SPICA system for over 30 years. Very similar system, right...developed originally from diesel pump technology, IIRC.

Full disclosure: I think it's very cool, especially on a good looking motor...think MB 300 Gullwing.

The SPICA system is dead reliable, and maybe more so today than when it was new due to the clever people (here in the US) who took the time to understand it and provide information/service to owners. If it's set-up by the book (pump calibrated; linkage adjusted right; timed right with its drive belt; mixture set; healthy electric fuel supply pump, clean filters and good ignition system) then, at least for the Alfa, it's something you can just leave alone. The two common failures are a rack spring in the pump breaks (has happened to me once) and a thermostatic bulb that provides rich to lean modulation for cold starts which can lose it's mojo (mine has thus far been fine). Since the "map" is essentially the shape of the internal space cam, there's not much to futz with.

Is the Bosch/Kugelfischer system less reliable? I do remember reading that 911E's had good driveability but not the best MPG's. Is the system disparaged, like SU carbs were by Chebby mechanics, simply due to lack of understanding, or does it, as installed on a 911 engine, have real reliability issues?

Thanks in advance for some education...John in CT
I too have had Sipca injected Alfa's, The Bosch is just as reliable, arguably maybe even more so than the Spica.
As with both systems there seems to be more support and parts now than 25 years ago.
Rochester FI was what the Chevy guys hated then and love now just like the Porsche guys with the Bosch MFI amd Alfa guys with the Spica, Lucas MFI for the British and Can AM guys. unfamiliarity, tune ability and part cost were their down falls in the day. Now it is cool and appreciated for the better performance than Carbs.
The one real down fall for those that drive a lot, these systems relied on the lead in the gas to lubricate the pistons of the high pressure pump. I do not know the rate of failure, but over time the cars still run great but they start "making oil" as the gas leaks around the pump and gets into the common lubrication oil of the pump and engine. A lot of people's cars handily leak oil at the same rate so no one is the wiser
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Old 01-29-2018, 08:14 AM
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