Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 Engine Rebuilding Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
914 JUNKIE
 
dave7320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Willow Grove PA
Posts: 166
3.2 rebuild questions

Iím rebuilding my 1987 3.2. It will be a stock rebuild. I have a couple questions for you seasoned rebuilders.
1) should I replace the exhaust side head studs. Are they a problem like the 3.0 liters?
2) Iím planning on using the Cohline brand oil lines available here on Pelican. The cam and tensioner feed lines. Has anyone had issues with them?
TIA

Last edited by dave7320; 01-22-2018 at 01:28 AM..
Old 01-21-2018, 05:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Nash County, NC. Just west of Rt 95
Posts: 6,744
Replace the bottom row of studs with factory steel.
Oil lines will be good, sometimes they need a smidge of adjusting
Lest you forget, the oil scavenge line goes to the inside on the thermostat.
If you can’t get the connector off the thermostat, cut diagonally the nut to relieve the threads of aluminum on the thermostat.
Bruce
Old 01-25-2018, 10:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 7
How's the progress of your rebuild?
Old 02-01-2018, 09:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
914 JUNKIE
 
dave7320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Willow Grove PA
Posts: 166
Disassembly is done. Found problems with #4 cylinder. It was leaking oil around the base of the cylinder and looked like the combustion chamber seal was leaking too. The oil control ring was 2 pieces and the intermediate shaft bearings were showing some copper. The crankshaft is straight and in spec. The rods are being rebushed and resized. Cams and rockers show minimal wear.
My head guy found a problem with head #4. It was machined wrong at the factory. It was .006Ē deeper pocket than the other heads. Effectively making it shorter when torqued. No wonder they head leaked. Intakes guides were toast in the whole motor. Everything else showed low wear.




Old 02-02-2018, 01:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
abit off center
 
cgarr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: At the Airport Kentwood, MI
Posts: 7,026
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to cgarr
with one head off that much I'm surprised the cam even turned?
__________________
______________________
Craig
G2Performance
Twinplug, head work, case savers, rockers arms, etc.
Old 02-02-2018, 06:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
914 JUNKIE
 
dave7320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Willow Grove PA
Posts: 166
It wasn’t .006” across. It’s was deeper at one end like there was a chip or something under the one sidewhen they machined it at the factory. There are no signs that the motor had been opened before. I will check the cam bores for elongation.

Last edited by dave7320; 02-02-2018 at 07:07 AM..
Old 02-02-2018, 06:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Under the radar
 
Trackrash's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sebastopol, The Republic of California. Land of wine and redwoods.
Posts: 4,770
Garage
Kudos to your motor guy for finding that problem with the head. Amazing.

Sounds like the rest of the motor just needs a freshen-up. Good luck.
__________________
Gordon
___________________________________
'71 911 Coupe 3,0L outlawed
#56 PCA Redwood Region, GGR, NASA, Speed SF
Trackrash's Garage :: My Garage
Old 02-03-2018, 05:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
914 JUNKIE
 
dave7320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Willow Grove PA
Posts: 166
Picked up the heads yesterday. The intake guide were Were severely worn. Stems on the valves were shot. Three sets of valve springs were weak. So all new valves guides and springs. Today is cleaning parts at work. Then check the cam bores and the new cylinder heights/bores and piston diameters. Ring gaps and ring groove clearances. Not even trusting Mahleís quality control after finding my head issue. Hehe
Old 02-04-2018, 03:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
914 JUNKIE
 
dave7320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Willow Grove PA
Posts: 166
After spending 4 hours in the parts cleaning tank. Found some wear issues with the cam and rockers. Rockers are heading to cgarr and the cam is going to camgrinder for a regrind. Here are some cam lobe pics.

Old 02-11-2018, 12:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
KTL KTL is offline
Schleprock
 
KTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Frankfort IL USA
Posts: 15,611
Send a message via Yahoo to KTL
Mahle didn't make the heads so don't blame them?

I gots a spark plug like that too!



What Craig is saying about the cam housings isn't about the bore dimensions. It's about one head being the wrong height and then when you bolt the housing to the head, it potentially distorts the housing such that the four cam bearing bores are not co-linear. That would make the cam difficult to turn.

These cam housings seem to be somewhat of a dimensionally unstable casting. You can check the flatness of the housing's head sealing surface and the valve cover surfaces and you'll rarely find them to be anywhere near flat. Seems a lot of them are slightly "twisted" when they're not mounted on the heads. I suspect when they are mounted to the heads, they straighten out a bit.
__________________
Kevin L
Present: '86 Carrera, '79 911SC widebody conversion rolling racecar shell
Past: '87 Carrera
Old 02-12-2018, 06:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,196
One thing I learned in my rebuild, and in later attempts to address the issue, is the cam oil lines have an issue. The problem is the tube part that inserts into the hollow bolt on the case is about 1/8" too long. This keeps the ferrule from snugging down and actually making a good seal. The simple solution is to grind off about 1/8", making sure to clean it up, then installing as normal. I replaced this 3 times before I finally figured out what the problem was. IIRC John Walker may have noticed this as well. Another, expensive, solution is to order the "Porsche" part that does not have the ferrule pre installed, Its much more expensive and the solution I used solved the problem perfectly.
__________________
Buck
'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold '07 A4 sold, '14 C250 DD
Warren Hall, gone but not forgotten
Old 02-12-2018, 10:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
There is no substitute.
 
bickyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BC
Posts: 205
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave7320 View Post
After spending 4 hours in the parts cleaning tank. Found some wear issues with the cam and rockers. Rockers are heading to cgarr and the cam is going to camgrinder for a regrind. Here are some cam lobe pics.

May I ask how many miles were on this engine? I am in the process of doing similar on my 88 with 101K in the coming months and would like to use this as a baseline for what I may encounter inside. looking forward to your progress. Dan.
Old 02-17-2018, 04:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
914 JUNKIE
 
dave7320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Willow Grove PA
Posts: 166
About 65k as far as I know. Bought it used of a guy who did a 3.2 conversation. Hopefully you won’t find this any issues.
Old 02-17-2018, 04:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
There is no substitute.
 
bickyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BC
Posts: 205
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave7320 View Post
About 65k as far as I know. Bought it used of a guy who did a 3.2 conversation. Hopefully you wonít find this any issues.
Wow. That is surprising and worrying all at the same time. I wonder why the cams are so marked up and the guides were so worn. Maybe an extreme lack of oil changes. I expected you to say 150 plus miles. I wish you successful wrenching sir! Subscribed.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
Old 02-17-2018, 05:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
914 JUNKIE
 
dave7320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Willow Grove PA
Posts: 166
My guess is quality control slipped up on this motor. The exhaust guides were only worn minimal. So there must have been a quality problem with the intakes being so bad at such low mileage. The cam looks like poor oil condition. The bottom end looks like a low mileage motor.
Old 02-18-2018, 02:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
There is no substitute.
 
bickyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BC
Posts: 205
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave7320 View Post
My guess is quality control slipped up on this motor. The exhaust guides were only worn minimal. So there must have been a quality problem with the intakes being so bad at such low mileage. The cam looks like poor oil condition. The bottom end looks like a low mileage motor.
Good timing on your part. I hate to think some kissing of valve and pistons was in the near future on your motor. I would like to keep to the top end of mine. I know the bottom end of these motors is very sound except for the pump shaft bearings more than likely showing copper which bothers me. 3:29 am....
Old 02-18-2018, 07:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
914 JUNKIE
 
dave7320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Willow Grove PA
Posts: 166
Intermediate shaft bearings were showing copper on this motor.
Old 02-18-2018, 08:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Nash County, NC. Just west of Rt 95
Posts: 6,744
They all show copper. The tensioners put out lots of running pressure and intermediate shaft bearings suffer but do their job.
Bruce
Old 02-18-2018, 02:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
There is no substitute.
 
bickyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BC
Posts: 205
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat6pac View Post
They all show copper. The tensioners put out lots of running pressure and intermediate shaft bearings suffer but do their job.
Bruce
A question. We all know about the slick slope money wise. Will they "suffer" adequately for 200k miles? Have you ever heard of this bearing resulting in a catastrophe? I am sorry if I am treading on the OP's thread.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
Old 02-18-2018, 04:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
KTL KTL is offline
Schleprock
 
KTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Frankfort IL USA
Posts: 15,611
Send a message via Yahoo to KTL
Premature valve guide wear on the 3.2L engines is very common. Nothing out of the ordinary to see an engine that needs them as early as high 50K miles. I have had two engines that needed them. Both were 60K mile engines when the signs were there- oil consumption and noisy valvetrain.

Intermediate shaft bearing shells seem to hit copper and then level off there. They don't continue to get worse and cause a major failure. It's enough to make you wonder, why bother replacing them since the new shells will suffer the same fate.
__________________
Kevin L
Present: '86 Carrera, '79 911SC widebody conversion rolling racecar shell
Past: '87 Carrera
Old 02-19-2018, 05:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:12 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.