lean condition when dyno'd

repoe3 · 01:13 PM

hey gang, lennie, roger, duanne, et al...had the bike dyno'd today and appeared to be lean through out. setup is the induct, k&n, staintune and FIM to suit. i gained 2-5hp everywhere and torque was nicely improved. the tech recommended trying the ne techlusion as they use factory cables instead of wire splicing. their thought was that if more fuel could be delivered up high that peak hp would improve. the bike runs great and pulls hard, but i have to wonder if maybe a different ap might do better? any thoughts on this? thanks in advance.

repoe3

roger albert · 04-12-2003, 03:09 PM

Interesting. How confident are you in the Dyno operator? That is pretty exactly config that chip is meant for, so that would suprise me. What is his indication that it is lean. Duane and Brad and Lennie could better speak to this than me, but it strikes me as a bit odd. Of course, it could help the techlusion sales

I'm skeptical you'd gain much from it.

When you said you gained 2-5, what versus what configuration is that based on?
Bone stock vs all of those items? I want to make sure I'm following this right.

roger

boxercup · boxercup's Garage

Repoe,

How was it determined that your bike was running lean? At what RPM range?
2-5 HP is respectable with the Staintune/FIM set-up????

Let me know.

Robert Foster
Foster Design

repoe3 · 03:40 PM

this dyno was plotted against my stock baseline. the operator inserts the sniffer up the tail of the bike to monitor the mixture. one thing i did not mention was that the peak hp was 85 that is only 2 up from the baseline, but as stated, there was upwards of 5+hp throughout the power curve. it was an improvement, but not what i was expecting. the FIM chip is the one for exactly my setup. it has me in a qaundry as well.

repoe3

boxercup · boxercup's Garage

Repoe,

Lean as compared to???? Other bikes???

BMW's run lean, that is the motronics job.

But how Blue is blue????

How lean at what rpm?

Just trying to help.

Robert

repoe3 · 04-12-2003, 04:49 PM

i wish i had a bit more information, but until i get the printed results showing fuel mixture at various rpm's i am short more info. the mix seems okay for the most part it is only up at the top that if it had more fuel, it would have a bit more zip. regardless of that, my header pipes look to be expected having owned several R bikes between my father and myself. nothing too blue, plus the tail pipe exhibits a nice dark color at the exits. the plugs seem okay for the most part. hope to get the proper printout this week. i was there during the dyno and watched the meter on the screen as it travelled into the yellow/red zones monitoring the mix. firebolter also had his firebolt dyno'd and his mix was spot on. between the questions you all can ask and the answers i can obtain we can come up with some great ideas...i am trully optimistic. but i do maintain some doubt in the dyno. having witnessed many dyno's there is not a lot to it and all the bases appeared to be covered.

repoe3

boxercup · boxercup's Garage

Repo,

Was your cat code plug pulled???

Robert

repoe3 · 04-12-2003, 05:26 PM

no, the question as been asked and difference concerning the cat code with the FIM chip is that it made no difference. are you suggesting that i remove the plug? from my understanding the FIM chip has all eight possible maps (in regards to the cat code plug) so that it does not matter whether it is in or not.

repoe3

repoe3 · 04-12-2003, 05:51 PM

okay i have removed the infamous cat code plug. while i will not be able to dyno the bike anytime soon, i will ride without it tomorrow (i will bring it with me of course should it start acting funny)...but i have to believe that i wont see a major difference. of course iu will be dreaming all night that tomorrow when i power up it will be a new bike and see it is that part of the dream that my alarm wakes me up and i return to reality.

repoe3

boxercup · boxercup's Garage

TAKE THE CAT CODE PLUG OUT.

Don't trick the motronic!

Cheers,
Robert

roger albert · 04-12-2003, 07:29 PM

Pullling the cat code is not supposed to make a difference, since the plug just selects a map, and each map on that chip is identical, no?

Otoh, I too would like to know how lean. If you boosted 5hp midrange and 2hp peak, then you can't be far off. That's a small, but appreciable and realistic gain. Where the difference should really show is in roll-ons as you shift through each gear. That's a better indicator of the modest, but nice gains you'll get in everyday driveability. Let us know when you have more data pls.

roger

brad black · 04-12-2003, 11:26 PM

mine would always make more dyno hp with the std chip over the fim chip in the tune/duct combo, as the fim duct chip top end was too rich on the dyno i use. i've got lots of runs to prove it. the fim chip works lots better on the road tho.

strikes me as very odd they would say it's lean. is your fuel filter ok? good fuel pressure? i would expect it to lose "dyno" power as compared to std with that combo.

the code plug makes no diference with the fim chip. well, it shouldn't.

boxercup · boxercup's Garage

Greetings,

The next time someone evaluates a chip, do it with and without the cat code plug. It is worth the time.

Made a positive difference on all chips we tested this winter.

Remember marketing plays a big part of the spiel that chip manufacturers use to promote their product.

Question, how do you change maps on the RhineWest Chip and the BBP Chip to conform to the level of mods on your "S"? Especially, the BBP chip?

Cheers,

Robert Foster
Foster Design

roger albert · 04-13-2003, 08:55 AM

So, are we saying the manufacturers of some chips lie when they say each map are in the ROM is the same? You're either saying they are lying under the guise of marketing, or you're not. I think if FIM says they've put each map the same, then it's true. Maybe I'm naive.
Do you understand how the cat code plug, or any chip works?

The Rhinewest and BBP do use the plug to select the map at system boot time. Personally, I use a 3 position switch that allows me to simulate the 3 different cat code plug configurations that are of interest to me. So, on some chips, just blindly/dumbly pulling the plug will help. On others, it will do nothing. On some of the BBP chips, it will actually be worse (at least one knowledgeable lister has his maps 2 and 3 coding selction reversed from the way my bbp is programmed. For me, pulling the plug does select the middle of 3 map, which is the best suited for my config. For the guy with the reversed map, it would be worse.

Note on any chip with more than 2 maps, it's not just a question of pulled or not pulled. That will access, at most, only two maps.
Don't know which scheme that RW has chosen other than it to is of course selected via a plug (i.e. I don't know if one plug vs another plug, or the stock plug vs none, or a non-stock plug vs none)
So, think instead of just pulling. Know your map and your chip and don't just go ripping stuff out. The rest of Robert's questions sound like just the right ones though. I'd look at the filter or pinched line too. Since they're no real mixture measurement in open loop mode (which you're in all the time when dyno-ing) then the system has no way of knowing that it's not squirting as much fuel as it thinks it is, is something is amiss (such as pinched line, clogged filter, faulty pump, clogged injector etc etc)

rob_wijhenke · 04-13-2003, 10:17 AM

Roger and others with selectable maps, what stage for what situation?

I have the BBP and a 2 position switch to switch between stage 2 and 3.

I *think* that with stage 2 I have a higher top end, with stage 3 more midrange power although it is quite hard to do a fair comparison. Each run on the freeway on Sunday morning

)) is different, a bit more wind, less concentration, you know how it is.

Anyway, what should be the best setting according to your experience?

My setup:
K&N air-filter
Lennie's Induct
BB Power chip
K1200RS Fuel pressure regulator
Laser Cat eliminator
Brisk race sparkplugs

roger albert · 04-13-2003, 11:12 AM

Hi Rob,

My setup is very close to yours
SJ Powerfilter w/K&N air-filter
Lennie's Induct
BB Power chip
Stock Fuel pressure regulator
Laser Cat eliminator
Stock sparkplugs

Normally, with stageII giving more apparent topend than 3, I'd say something was amiss. In this case, if I had to make a guess, I'd say that compared to me, you have a slightly more restrictive filter setup, and a bunch more fuel, implying rich running. Probably a bit over-rich. Given that, it might make sense that stage two, which ought to be leaner, bring your mixture back towards optimal.

I think it's hard to do a fair comparison too, other than maybe a bunch of timed roll-ons.

I have my BBP wired similar to yours. Except that since mine is mapped a bit differently (I remember comparing to yours a long while ago) I have to set my switch differntly. I happened to find a wiring setup that would select stage two in one position of spdt and stage two in the other. Since mine goes to stage-3 with no connection (I think your 2 and 3 were reversed compared to mine) then I was able to swap in a spdt with center-off and end up with a stage 1/2/3.

Anyway, I'd temporarily jumpered mine for stage-4 and it rolled on a bit slower. I attribute that to being over rich. Your K12fpr may give you a similar, if not identical situation. My setup really likes position 3 currently. You have less air and more fuel, so I'd GUESS that stage-2 is better for your setup. Tough call and just conjecture, but I'd lay money on it being right (just not much)

repoe3 · 03:12 PM

back from 300 miles through the virginia hills, big hills, fun hill, wine country, blah blah blah...as would be expected there was no difference between running with vs. without the cat code plug. albeit, i did not dyno it, but the ccp does not appear to affect the FIM chip. early on, i remember people saying that the setup with the FIM chip actually did make a weird top end on the dyno. damn i wish i had that print out, anyway, today roll-ons (as usual) did not indicate a plateau of power like the dyno chart indicated. i hit the rev limiter and it never seemed to stop pulling, that is until the rev limiter kicked in. i guess what i am saying is that i doubt i have any mechanical issue with the bike. no difference between gas mileage without the ccp. but wait one second, the difference in removing the ccp is dramatic as it removes at least an ounce from up high. that helps the bike turn in faster, smoother. i was able to scrub my rear tire in to the edges too. all kidding aside, the improvement in ridability and power/torque of the bike is significant. while i may be intrigued to pursue other options...one thing is for sure is that from the baseline on the same dyno, everything improved. i will just keep searching for dynos that will report a higher hp reading and leave it at that

repoe3
thinking he might want to try the rhinewest chip just for the fun of it.

TLinuf · 04-13-2003, 12:39 PM

I recently had a chance to have my S dynoed .....
4 pulls were made with a peak of 88.4 at the rear wheel.
Unfortunately, the last change to the setup I made a few days later > exit the cat-code plug.
For now, it's just a number out in space as I don't have any future plans on having it dynoed again.

Current mods include:
Vanderlinde exhaust and chip, in a 2001 ecu (my bike is a '99)
Induct
San Jose powerfilter assy.
stock regulator
cat-code extermination

I performed all these mods one-at-a-time!
That includes the exhaust BEFORE the chip.
I'm always interested in potential changes from each source alone.

I've heard/read much discussion over the potential benefits of adding a chip/exhaust/induct, etc.
I can say, without a doubt, each of these mods produced or changed power. The exhaust and airfilter brought up the mid and top end, but suffered the low. The induct made a very noticable difference, especially when accelerating through and over 70 mph .... nice. As some of you might want to know, the chip install actually brought back everything that had been lost on the low end! Before, I had to be over 3000-3500 to experience smooth acceleration. Afterwards, it's no problem to roll-on from 2500 or even lower. Nice to have the original balance back in the powerband.
I'm still experimenting with the cat-code plug. I think it has actually helped the top-end most as it doesn't seem to nose over near redline/rev-limit.

As an interesting sidenote, I was able to run the bike down the 1/4 mile this past Friday night. First run was the best at 11.88 @ 113.12 mph! Not bad for a touring bike. The bike was very consistent. Turned out it was a rain-delayed Streetbike Shootout that night and I managed to get 3rd place in a 33 bike feild running against prepped Hyabusas and Kawasakis!
Add another area this bike outperforms in!

TLinuf · 04-13-2003, 12:49 PM

I was wondering, does anyone know the calculations for correcting horsepower if you know what the weather conditions were?

Thanks,
Tom

rob_wijhenke · 04-13-2003, 01:04 PM

Roger, thanks, excellent explanation. I very much guess you're right. Also given the fact, totally forgot to mention, that with stage 3 I have a great afterburner effect with flames coming out of the tailpipe! And loads (much more than with stage 2) black stuff on my licence plate. I guess that has to do with the richer mixture.

I'll switch back to S2 next time I take her out!