What do want to learn on a track day?

[sakurama]

I've been asked to be a guest instructor/speaker at the Citibeemers track day coming up in September and I'd like to poll this list for some advice on what you would like to learn if you were to go to a track day.

I've been racing for 4 years now but I started with a CLASS school which I thought was great and started me down the road of racing. I have a lot of ideas about what I should teach/discuss but I'd like it to be as relevent as possible for those attending - many for the first time. If you've never been to a track day what are the concerns you have that you would like to see addressed? If you've been to one what do you feel would help you most? I want to make this a useful lesson for people so they feel more comfortable out there and learn something about themselves and their bikes and their limits. Tell me what you'd like to hear.

Gregor

[roger albert]

My advice would be, in general, pick a major useful point or technique and focus on it, whatever it may be. Too many classes try to cover too broad of a range of topics, with the result that none can be readily absorbed by many of the participants.

I've heard over and over again that the exercize that most benefited many people was doing semi quick laps w/o the brakes, just focusing on throttle control. Much more applicable to big twins with more engine braking, than L4s, or god forbid 2smokes, but good in any event. People seemed to respond well to that. Less brake mashing and chassis upsetting.

On the other hand, that's a favorite topic of mine, so I could have been biased and just picked up on that part more readily.

Getting experienced road riders who have been taught for years to create space around them to clip apexes is a big challenge too, from what I've seen.
Picking lines is almost too big of a topic, if you try to incorporate braking markers and normal vs late apexing.

So, throttle control and general apexing (going for larger radii vs parallel to perimeter) would seem good.

I'll be interested to see what others say.
Good luck and let us know how it works out. Cool topic.

[Andy U]

I've done L1 and L2 of Keith Codes school so I'm a bit biased in how I learned. I thought reading Twist of the Wrist II was very helpful before my first Code school. He's not the best writer in the world and some of his explanations are sketchy, but he gets the point across. Wouldn't hurt to recommend the read before hitting the track.

I agree with Roger on the no-brake drill. You must emphasize the purpose of the drill is smoothness and set-up. The goal is NOT to see how well you can predict how much speed you can scrub off before the turn by using the engine alone. Personnal experience of going from the big twin braking of the R11S to the non-engine braking ZX-6R caused me to have a personnal relationship with the pavement on T11 at Laguna Seca a while back.

I personally like the quick turn-in and the deliberate head-turn techniques that Code emphasizes. During his classes, you will get coaching signals from the instructors (hand signals) if they observe laziness on these two issues.

The biggest thing I'm still learning after 4 track days is the importance of picking out braking markers. The concept of going past the same point over and over again is foreign to street riders.

Lastly, I would think that with a beemer club it would help for you to understand the goals of your students. If you had to break it down into two groups, I would imagine there is some percentage that just want to experience the track (no oil, dirt, other cars) and not push the speed while the other percentage wants to learn how to be faster and will be asking questions about hanging off and what scrapes first.

Good luck, sounds like fun!

Andy

[flynbmw]

Learn to be SMOOTH!!!

Harold

[BWS]

I've not done any trackdays and don't really want to(personal reasons).BUT,have corner worked for Kieth Code and others at VIR,and will be doing more.In fact turn down free track time,just give my time to the younger riders.Anyhow,I see Code putting down turn-in cones about 12-18" in from outside of pavement,and it dosen't seem anyone "dares" to get outside of these.But then this could be just the corners I've been workin?Personally I have no problem gettin that last few centimeters of pavement.......on most corners.My problem is when I'm intently focusing on looking through some corners(admittedly hauling a$$ in the mnts.),I get a little nervous about squeezin the last few inches at turn-in.It ain't even a slight issue on the drive out,to the point that I'll occasionally put it in the gravel and keep yankin it.So my desire would be some sort of "trick" to get even more relaxed or confident using all the pavement,all the time,at turn-in.

[Johnny in Oz]

This is a great topic to pursue and one very close to my heart.

If I had to nominate just one issue for specific attention for boxers it would be optimal corner speed and lean angle before those cylinder heads touch down and what happens if and when they do touch down. I know this has been covered to some extent on this Board but I would personally benefit enormously if I had instruction on this one issue at the track.

I have otherwise attended many track days and have also completed the first 3 levels of the Keith Code school, which have been great. I agree with all the comments so far, it's just that I have never scraped or touched down anything, and it's one thing that I (particularly) focus on at the track.

Oh, there's one other thing that no-one ever discusses and that's fitness levels required for track days. This is something that applies across the board, especially for attendees (like me) that have sedentary jobs and as their average age (me again) creeps up to and beyond the age when the body can cope with the physical demands of riding at the track. I discovered the reality of my physical deterioration after my first track day, having torn a quad muscle and requiring physio for the next month.

We typically have 8 scheduled sessions of 15 or 20 minutes downunder. I now try to prepare myself physically well before a track day 'coz I know that I'll have trouble getting through the day otherwise as the fun factor goes down and the danger factor goes up as the day wears on.

Does this resonate with anyone else out there or is it just me? Physical fitness through motorcycling, who woulda thought it?

Good luck with it.

John

[Kampy]

Well, i've never spent any time on the track, but i do teach msf classes and i have thought about getting on the track and how it could benefit me. Beginning riders have a host of issues and these vary greatly from student to student. One thing almost every beginning student can use is more faith in the corner. i say faith because they don't yet grasp exactly what's going on and they need to let go of intuition in order to "push right, go right".

When i do finally get out to the track, this is what i'll want to work on also. My faith. I understand the technique, that's not my issue. I simply need to push my limits so i have greater faith in my ability to hold a line, fast. I'm not really interested in scratching up my cylinder covers on the pavement, but i'd like to believe i could do it if the situation called for it. I'd want some coaching on how to approach my cornering limits and push past them. Not only will this make the twisties more enjoyable, it will also make me a better/safer rider.

Kurt.

[pwillikers]

Well said Kurt! As you said "how to approach my cornering limits and push past them" and I might add how to react when slides occur.

[sakurama]

Originally posted by Johnny in Oz


Oh, there's one other thing that no-one ever discusses and that's fitness levels required for track days.

I think that's a good point and there has been a lot of other good ones raised here. I found racing that as my lap times dropped it took more and more physical effort to go fast and last at that pace through a race. Obviously I try to start serious training 3-4 months before the season but at the track I like to warm up with yoga and a lot of stretching which is something anyone can do and it calms the mind as much as it relaxes the body. Good mental preparation.

For beginners one thing I'm seeing is trying to gain confidence. While that has a lot to do with bike set up a higher level it has more to do with incremental speed increases and familiarity. We're all confident riding down our favorite road because we know it so well so helping with that will be one of my goals. I like the no brake drill too.

These are good suggestions so far. Keep them coming.

Gregor

[Andy U]

To follow on what John said, I would agree that the boxer crowd is well aware that the cylinder heads will eventually touch especially with sticky tires and a little experience on the track. The first time I had my bike on the track I "accidentally" scraped the cylinder head/brake/foot peg and it scared the crap out of me. I stood up and went off into the dirt without crashing. No problem but spooky. The next time I scraped it wasn't that bad. By my second R11S stint on a different track, the scraping occured without too much excitement.

The lesson here is two-fold. 1) If you are smooth and controlled at the turn-in, the scraping is very gentle and manageable. If you are jerky and trying to be too super fast, the scraping is more like crashing the head down and it will scare you. 2) Assure the student that if and when something scrapes nothing will happen...as long as they approached that point with smoothness. Emphasize that their focus should be on the technique instead of if/when things will hit.

The other simple point that's easy to correct is proper foot position on the peg. For most beginners, I would bet their first touching experience with the pavement is the toes of their boot. Looking at photos from Pacific Track Time's "C" group shows the obvious mistake of splayed out toes on the footpeg. Dangerous and scary.

Andy

[Mike900]

I agree with Roger on the "no brakes" drill. Frank Kinsey has taught that in the SE for a long time and it teaches several things that are valuable to both street and track. It teaches you to be smooth as you slowly try to increase your entry speed into the corner at what will be the right mid corner speed. It will push your corner speed up naturally so that if you ever find yourself on the street entering corner a littel too fast you won't be so tempted to grab the brakes and stand it up, you will simply turn it in and makle the corner and make a mental note that maybe that was a little fast for the street. Great exercise and it is a good exercise for an instructor to lead a group around slowly increasing speed.

Roger, I have done it on a two stroke (Aprilia RS250) and it still is an effective exercise.

Finally I think one of the best quotes from a racer (King Kenny) that applies to both street and track is "Slow in, Fast out". Street riders are much better learning this because it includes a margin for error that may be necessry on the street.

Whatever you do you will probably be a very effective instructor simply because you are willing to listen. Of all the raceers I've learned from and worked with, the ones that consistently get faster are the one that have a very effective dialog with their coach (Schwantz with Pegram & Spies, Doug Polen is a good coach as well).