Code v. CLASS

RonC · 05-21-2004, 12:25 PM

Just returned from Keith Code's 2 day camp at Pocono. DO NOT MISS THIS SCHOOL. The level of instruction is way, way better than CLASS (I have done 3 of those), the theory is way better, and the fun level is through the roof. I learned a huge number of new things that improved my riding enormously.

1967 R50/2 · 05-21-2004, 12:37 PM

Had a good two day class there myself last year. Highly recommended.

Moki · 05-21-2004, 12:47 PM

Having done CLASS several times, it was one of the funnest things I ever done. The CLASS is emphasized toward proper street/back road riding techniques. I have never attended Keith Code's lessens but wasn't his classes are more race oriented? Can you enlight me on the differences?

RonC · 05-21-2004, 01:04 PM

Code does have a race orientation. However, the bike handling techniques he teaches apply to the street as well. After all, bike handling is bike handling. Consider an example: late corner entry. No matter where you place the bike, late entry gives you more information than early entry. Coupled with a nice crisp flick, this means less lean angle (thus more in reserve) and therefore less induced drag. Net result, more traction to handle whatever comes up.

By way of contrast, CLASS emphasizes "tight" lines, which means less of a look down the road (consider a right hander) and thus less information.

Also, the confidence you get from being able to flick the bike really smartly is a huge boost.

Moki · 05-21-2004, 01:29 PM

Thanks for the reply. I shall check into Code's west coast schedules. CYA

markjenn · 02:55 PM

I've taken CLASS once and Code four times. No comparison, IMHO.

Based on my limited experience, CLASS is a fun track day with amusing breaks, lots of good tips, reminders about random things to work on during sessions, and draconian safety rules and lectures. Very little on-track supervision other than reprimands if you break the safety rules. I suspect CLASS does have fewer crashes - only one guy crashed in my CLASS school and typically two or three crash in a Code school.

Code is a very structured training program with a highly-refined cirriculum. Each session has a very specific focus and you are given 1-1 coaching if you're not doing exactly that the session focus is about. There's lots of track supervision, most often the instructor having you follow him around and mimic his actions. The safety rules are much less dranconian and you can pass whenever it is safe to do so. They even do stuff like tape corner entries on the track so you can really see how deep you're supposed to go. The exercises are much more innovative - for example, there will be one exercise where you are supposed to ride the extreme left of the track all the way around, the extreme right, and then the center, to give you an idea of how you can use the entire track rather than just focusing on the "racing line."

A further benefit of Code is their simulator bikes: the no-BS bike and the outrigger-equipped power slide bike. Being able to power-slide a bike on a skidpade in reasonable safety is enlightening.

Both are extremely valuable, but if you want to make rapid advancement in your cornering abilities, Code is the way to go. I've heard the argument that CLASS is better for street riders because it applies lessons to street situations, but I never saw this on my track day.

- Mark

RonC · 05-21-2004, 01:48 PM

Also: the heart of Code's system is visual skills. You go where your eyes tell you to go. He has developed a system for training your eyes to give you the info you need to ride the bike safely/well/quickly. These skills differ from what your eyes do naturally. Hence, you come out of CSS as a much better street rider.

Code himself is a highly analytic rider/teacher. What he tells you is based more on analysis of riding than on pure opinion. In addition, he is a great teacher, as are all of his instructors. At the camp, we had feedback from the camera bike, constant feedback from the corner workers to our instructors (yup, we had assigned instructors), and much more.

Moki · 05-21-2004, 02:14 PM

The october 10th at Streets of Willow looks good. Anyone interested in going?

lemec · 05-22-2004, 05:36 AM

For those who have done the Code thing, did you use one of his bikes or bring your own (and if so, was it your S)? I'm thinking about doing one of these this August at Summit Point. I've never been to anything like this, and haven't even been to the track. Any advice would be appreciated. It sounds very worthwhile.

markjenn · 05-22-2004, 06:47 AM

For Code, I've rented once and had my own bike three times (a VF500 once, and an R6 twice).

While the Code Kawasaki 600's are set up nicely and a hoot to ride, I prefered taking my own bike. The big reason is that when you rent, you share the bike with other renters, who may bring in the bike from a previous session late, they may crash, you may get stuck gettting the bike fueled, etc. With your own bike, you can be ready at the head of the pack at the beginning of each session with clear track ahead. I'm guessing I lost five or so laps when I rented due to handoff logistics and the guy in front of me crashing once, requring a scramble for me to get on another bike. (The guy was a real dufus throughout the day - just luck of the draw.)

Another advantage of BYOB is that you can customize the setup. When you rent, you get the standard setup, or some random setup as you and the guy in front of you battle over the clickers.

Some folks point to the "train on the bike you're going to be riding" aspect, but I think this isn't a huge deal. The skills you gain are more mental skills rather than physical skills and they transfer to whatever you're riding. And many of us ride lots of different bikes, mitigating this aspect.

The big advantages of renting is that you can fly in, have a rental car at the track, and generally free your mind of any concern about thrashing (or crashing) your bike. I also think you get more out of a track day running a front-line 600 rather than herding one of our BMW pigs around, but that's just my opinion and I know a lot of folks enjoy the S at the track.

Some tips if you BYOB: Trailering is nice because you can take care of bike setup issues and track prep well ahead of time and have a car at the track with extra food, water, clothes, and fuel. But if you ride to the track, there is plenty of time to do bike prep if you know what you're doing - do the AF replacment (if required) ahead of time, so all you need to do is take off mirrors and tape lights. Some folks pull the headlight fuse to avoid overheating the headlight behind the tape - dunno if this is necessary or not.

Even with a full tank at the beginning, you'll likely need fuel during the day as you'll be putting a hundred-odd miles on the bike and they get 20mpg or less at the track. Some tracks have fuel at the track, some don't. If they do, it will be outrageously expensive - typically $5/gal+. Same with food. Whatever you do, bring plenty of water to drink - with the stress, speed, and sun, dehydration is a huge problem.

- Mark

lemec · 05-22-2004, 12:50 PM

Thanks, Mark. Sounds like BYOB would be better for me. Might have to rent some stanky leathers, though

badger · 05-22-2004, 03:02 PM

I used one of the school bikes and was glad I did. I'm a complete track newbie. The bike is set up correctly with the right tires, right pressure, good amount of rubber. The instructors ride the same bikes, so when you follow, you know that if they're doing it, you can do it.

That said, if I had more track experience and knew my bike was set up right (for the track), I'd probably prefer to use my own bike, even if it is more of a pig--kind of a pride thing.

markjenn · 05-22-2004, 09:28 PM

Most tracks and schools will alllow one-piece or zip-together Aerostich type synthetic suits, but leather is certainly preferrable.

- Mark

RonC · 05-23-2004, 02:29 PM

IMO, use their bike. Two reasons: 1) You don't risk your own bike. 2) By using one of their's, you quickly find out that you can handle different bikes easily. There really isn't anything magic about your bike.

In re that "special" set-up that only your bike has: Yeah. Right. Trust me, you will not be riding anywhere near the limits of your -- or anyone's -- bike. Their bikes are set up just fine. If you do dump their bike, you pay for the parts but avoid the logistics/downtime of fixing your own.

I found that I could jump on their Kawasaki (either the assigned bike or the camera bike) and do just fine. Neither of their's is anything like either of mine (R1100S and CBR1000RR). This is another important lesson.

Bails · Bails's Garage

I'm an Aussie but am wondering if Code has a video school, I was particually interested in the statements that it is about learning new sight skills , these type of things could be worked on without actually attending I would assume.

yetidave · 05-23-2004, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lemec
For those who have done the Code thing, did you use one of his bikes or bring your own (and if so, was it your S)? I'm thinking about doing one of these this August at Summit Point. I've never been to anything like this, and haven't even been to the track. Any advice would be appreciated. It sounds very worthwhile.

I used my BCR this past Monday at Pocono. I didn't buy the bike to tip-toe around on worrying about scratches. I took it to the class and gave it a proper flogging. One of the best parts of the day was the look on the faces of the Duc boys after a session of having their rear-ends handed to them by a BMW. Good stuff. And there is no feeling in all of bikedom quite like dragging your engine on the ground through a turn. Scary as **** at first, then it feels pretty cool. Yes this is my first BMW after many Jap I-4's.

moose · 05-23-2004, 05:49 PM

Use their bike!

When I took Code's class last year at MidOhio, they had the sessions staggered so none of the swapping issues occurred.

Also, the ZX-6Rs are a riot, and make you realize the S is definitely a touring oriented sport bike, and a heavy one at that. The folks with the school do a great job preparing them

There are quite a few people that bring their own bikes, but unless you have one prepped for a track day, use theirs.

PFFOG · 05-23-2004, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yetidave
I used my BCR this past Monday at Pocono. I didn't buy the bike to tip-toe around on worrying about scratches. I took it to the class and gave it a proper flogging. One of the best parts of the day was the look on the faces of the Duc boys after a session of having their rear-ends handed to them by a BMW. Good stuff. And there is no feeling in all of bikedom quite like dragging your engine on the ground through a turn. Scary as **** at first, then it feels pretty cool. Yes this is my first BMW after many Jap I-4's.

Did a KC school at Watkins Glen a few years ago, was my first track experience. Was riding my '95 R1100RS and had a guy on a 748 Duc, that did 10+ track days/year trying all day to shake me off his tail, he couldn't do it. I was faster in the turns but he could pull me in the straights.

The level of instruction at KC is great, on track instructor was impressed, all he could say was "those bikes were not made to go that fast in corners" , I replied " Seemed fine to me".