2 personal opinions and then I will go back to watching y'all duke it out.

1 - Palestine was aligned with Germany during WWII. When Germany surrendered, Palestine fell under the control of the victors, in this case Britain. Palestine was dissolved as a country, as is common in European based wars. Note that the United States is the only country in history to routinely leave a losing combatant with their borders, their culture and their language intact. All the growing European nationalism aside, only the USA preserved Germany in the broken form it had by 1950. If allowed, Russia, France and Britain would have chopped it into 5 pieces, maybe more. We also preserved Japan intact, although China would have loved to gobble it up as soon as we left.

2 - Jimmy Carter extremely exacerbated the US role in the Middle East by not bombing Tehran when the students took the US Embassy. Such an act, by any Accord, is considered an Act of War. Carter sat on his useless peanut picking @ss for 400 days. I know, I was active duty aboard nuke missile subs at the time. We should have sacraficed our own hostages with a tactical nuclear weapon rather than had the US humiliated the way that dove-moron did. And yes, he was an ex-Navy Nuke and none of us who keep the genie in the reactor vessel are proud of him. Spineless Academy puke! (He does swing a mean hammer, though).

Some group of ogranizations, certainly the CIA but others, too, then decided to "pay back" Iran by supplying Saddam Hussein with arms and money for his 10 year border war with Iran. They got what they wanted: a whole bunch of dead Iranians. Dead Iraqis was just a bonus. The war decimated an entire generation of young and not so young men on both sides of the line. Saddam got what he wanted, more deeply entrenched than a Georgia tick, which seems like an appropriate allusion.

ps: Aryan = Iran because the root stock of Iranian people are not Arabic, they are Caucasians! They are fair skinned cousins to all caucasian peoples in western Europe. I think it is one of the funadamental issues why they hate the Saudis and all other Muslims.

Now, referee, please sound the bell for Round XXVII !!!

Heh. "B'hai Brith". THAT would be funny if it wouldn't be so sad. Ain't a single thing "Jewish" about the "Bah'ai" at all, period. Zero. :)

Man, that's a toughie. I *think* so but I'll tell you flat out, there's...concerns.

OK, the possible "bad motives":

* Haliburton really is a screwy bunch. Profit motive? I really wish Dick Cheney had less connections there and that they weren't over in Iraq making potloads of money. Even if it's clean, and it *probably* is 'cept for at least a little bill padding (there always is with gov't contracting), it doesn't look good.

* Saddam did order a hit on Dubya's daddy. Which is enough to piss *anybody* off. Was it Dubya's "real motives"? Hmmmm. Possible. I doubt it.

The positives:

* Saddam REALLY was a psycho. We only found out afterwards how psycho - the moron spent MOST of his time during his last few years writing romance novels. Swear to God. Him and his sons killed a lot of people. Huge numbers. Getting rid of Saddam and spawn is a good thing.

* Saddam *wanted* nukes and germs and chemicals that smell fatally bad. And we knew there was enough corruption via the UN food-for-oil program to finance all sorts of nasty. What we didn't know was that Saddam's mental collapse was so serious, he lost control over his underlings who started flat-out pocketing the money that was supposed to finance deadly crapola. And because these underlings were stealing from one of the most murderous psychos on earth, they covered their tracks pretty damn well; we didn't get the full picture until after we went in.

So we've essentially got a case of a guy who tried to appear scary as hell, we bought it all right, and pancaked his dumb ass. It's pretty funny when you think about it :).

And the funkiness wasn't all fake. Sarin keeps turning up in small batches still...some was found getting prepped into bombs in Falujia.

* Did Saddam have a "delivery system" for nasty crap available via Osama Yo Mama and company? The lefty media claims now that there was never a connection between the two except that connections keep cropping up. Here's CNN in 1999 by way of AP:

The nightmare was: Saddam gets a nuke, gives it to Osama, some flea-bitten idiot in a rowboat floats it up the Potomac and yells out "ALLAH AKBOOOOOOM".

Why risk it? :)

Even without a nuke program of his own, Saddam stole enough billions via UN oil fraud to flat BUY a "big boomer" off of North Korea and give it to Osama as a...well not "Chrismas" present exactly, but you get the idea. (Ramadan present?)

* Finally, and I think this is a large part of what's up, is that Iraq was done "Dresden Style", for the same reasons.

OK, late WW2, the US and Britain simply flattened the East German city of Dresden. They firebombed it day and night in specific patterns, working from the outer edge inwards, and created a "vortex" so severe people were dying as the air was sucked right out of their lungs. They killed more people than either of the nukes we later dropped on Japan. And all of this wasn't connected to the war against Germany at all...by that time the German air force was so creamed it wasn't near as dangerous to be a bomber crew as it had been earlier when packs of ME109s were all over.

So why did they toast Dresden and then bounce the rubble?

It was a message to Stalin: "Yeah, we're allies and all now, but if y'all try and keep on truckin' west to the English Channel, this is what we're gonna do to Moscow, Kiev, "Stalingrad", etc. Stop at BERLIN, mothafuka."

And he got the message loud and clear. Otherwise WW2 would have continued, the USSR clashing with us and Britain all over what was left of Europe. And THAT would have really looked like a pizza with the cheese ripped off :(.

In other words: once in a while you pancake one dude to prove to another you can do it. And it's necessary :(. The real recipients of the message were people like Pakistan (which stopped exporting nuke tech to the middle east), Libya where Kadaffyduck gave up on his nuke program, Iran where they're still stupid enough to be trying (morons) and even NK ("yo Kim Jung Illin', we ever find your isotopes in the ashes of DC, it's gonna be the "giant glowing parking lot of North Korea"...)

This ain't pretty. It's pretty damn ugly. But I've got a real bad feeling it was necessary :(.

Moybin: you're mostly right on all points but there's an issue with this:

Well...sorta. But the reason they NAMED the place "Aryan" at the time they did was as part of an attempt to strengthen ties to the Nazi empire.

You're also making a mistake attributing race to the difference between Iran and most of the Arab world. It's about two different strains of Islam, "Sunni" and "Shi'ite". The Shi'ite branch spun off about 100 years after Mohammed's death, and is considered "heresy" by most of the Sunnis.

Shi'ites in Saudi Arabia face horrific discrimination and even persecution. Part of the political split in Iraq stemmed from the mix of Sunni and Shi'ite there.

The odd thing is, in a lot of ways the Shi'ites are the LESS radical wing. The Wahabbi Sunnis of Saudi, Afghanistan and elsewhere are by far the most horrid strain of Islam. We really did make a mistake in Iran by supporting the Shah (basically king). Carter had that secret-police-wielding arsehole over for dinner at the White House just before it all collapsed over there. It was one of the Shah's ancestors who had gone all Nazi-gaga and renamed the joint "Aryan". The US should never have supported those nutcases; the fact that we did is why the new Iranian "revolution" seized on the US as the "Great Satan".

That's one of things I like about Dubya's current message: no more SUPPORT for total arseholes anywhere in the world. That's a good thing, and something both Dem and GOP presidents of the past have been guilty of going back to FDR and beyond.

(Note: the Shi'ites aren't all THAT "reformed" a strain of Islam. The Bah'ai are a much more modern, "Protestant-like" form and are hence being outright killed by both Sunni and Shi'ites :(. The other "very modern, non-violent" Islamic strain is Sufi-ism; if you ever meet a Muslim in the US who is into either Sufi or Ba'hai, you can be certain they've renounced violence in the furtherance of the faith. They don't hold a monopoly on that, but the Wahabbis damned well have NOT along with too many others.)

"newguy asks - R1100S models to avoid?"

i am confused...what do any of the previous comments have to do with an R1100S?

repoe3

Repoe: I know, it's a pain, but...when really ugly nasty BS raises it's head, it's got to be dealt with. And anti-Jewish racism/discrimination is about as nasty as it gets.

Silence isn't the right response.

Bear with us, OK?

and how about those NY Giants? Boy do they suck!

This is a motorcycle site gang, keep up this other stuff and I'll start posting nudies!

I've got these strange bumps on my dick... hold on, I'll post some pics.

Steve's other two questions:

Arafat dead is a DAMNED good start. His biggest crime was actually theft - stealing from the Palestinian people on a MASS scale, keeping them in deliberate poverty knowing it's the poor that go all revolutionary out of desperation.

Basically, the Palestinians ain't going to get anywhere until they find a "Ghandi". They've had lots of 'em, but you can spot 'em real easily - they're strung up by the necks from lightpoles and all stinky and maggoty :(.

It's up to them - the Palestinian people. If they want the BS to end, they'll have to elect a government that acts in that fashion, or shoot any that don't (esp. if they achieve power through illegitimate means).

But here's the REAL problem...check out this set of excerpts from Palestinian Authority school textbooks:

http://www.ecomtrade.co.il/eMall/shops/1559/imgbank/PA%20Report%20-%20August%202004.pdf

The level of racist propaganda in there is just unreal. And that's the 2004 study, in which the PA has significantly toned down the BS knowing that people are paying attention to this stuff. See also the earlier reports for much worse and compare to other Arab/Islamic countries which are almost as bad and sometimes worse:

http://www.edume.org/ - click on "reports" - the site is a bit hard to navigate sometimes because the mouse curson doesn't change properly.

Some of the Saudi stuff is just beyond :(. And Israeli material is compared and contrasted, which isn't perfect either but nothing at ALL like the other side's.

With hatred systematically being taught in the schools, peace is impossible :(.

um, so Ilike the R1100S, it comes in several models too...
oh, BTW, I just heard on the radio news on the way to work, congress wants another $$$80 large for the "war"...

just a warning, nudies are coming!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1103038525.jpg

Please add a politics board as a subset of the k1200s board. Then I won't have to read either one.

Good one ck!

on the "other" bbs boards that i haunt, we have a special section called "the dungeon".
it's where politics, religion, rants and like-minded threads go to die.
i'd hate to be the new guy that started this thread.
he's probably at home with the door locked, blinds pulled, thinking "jeez, all i asked was..."
....brad

OK Flatbutt, where are the nudies?

I have not participated in this forum for a very long time now because I was so angry. But Jim is right, silence is unacceptable in the face of such virulent Jew-baiting. Nazi flag-waving and spewing is not just stupid and anti-American, it is an attack. A very real attack against me personally, against my family, and against anything in it's path. It is the emotional center of the Jihadist terrorist movement, a movement which would scarcely be able to recruit anyone at all without it. No one straps a bomb to their chest without being consumed by raw, primal hatred. You can't get that far on just anti-U.S. political ideology. You have to reach inside someone and grab them by their fears and their ignorance. Terri Nichols blew up the Federal Building because he hated Blacks. The Sept 11 terrorists clutched their hatred of Jews to their hearts along with their Korans, they could not have killed thousands of innocents along with themselves without it. Chris Geuting may do something, or help convince someone else to do something, for the same basic reasons. Let's try and stop him.

Hey, I'm glad this thread got hijacked. j_dock got his questions answered anyway, and this board gets used all the time for commentary about the world. I'm thankful there are some individuals willing to share some insights that I probably wouldn't have come across otherwise. So thank you for your efforts, guys. There are some things more important than our toys.

Some feeble thoughts:
- I am ashamed of what our country did to Dresden, to civilians. And the same with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I'm sure this is naive, but couldn't we have said, "hey, watch this island tomorrow afternoon at 3pm?"
- it is most unfortunate who we have to ally ourselves with sometimes for the "greater good." Choosing between bad and worse sucks, but it is reality.
- I wistfully fantasize that an all-powerful authority could be created to police us, like the race of robots in "The Day the Earth Stood Still." There's a great idea there, and I know I'm going off the deep end here...
- I do have faith in the intentions and the ideals of the United States. I think even if we can't prove Saddam was "red handed," I agree the smoking gun shouldn't have been a mushroom cloud.
- I once heard a comparison of terrorism to a scourge the world community had to deal with many years before: Piracy. I wish more countries had the balls to stand up against psychos like Saddam, Gaddaffi, Hitler, etc etc etc. The world would be a better place if the world community refused to accept what sovereign nations do, even inside their own borders. Enough people know the difference between right and wrong to justify crossing the line.

That felt better. Whew!

Silence may be unacceptable but there are three choices unless you want to taint every single thread here that Chris posts on.

1. Ignor him (probably won't work)

2. Continuously monitor and delete his individual posts whenever they veer into his Fu'ed up view of the world. Or,
3. kick him off the board.

It's a motorcycle board and there are hundreds of political boards out in cyberspace. The objective here should be to keep this board somewhat free of his or anyones diatribes. Not wage that war here.

Guys, I'll keep this REAL short. Promise.

Steve: the problem with using an island instead of Dresden, Hiroshima, etc. is that when you're dealing with people as rotten as Stalin, the Japanese military gov't, etc, it's not just a question of "can you?". It's also about "do you have the guts?". We did. They backed down. Ultimately Dresden, Hiroshima, etc. *saved* a lot more lives than they took. I support those decisions. A real question is, "did the people of Hiroshima and Dresden have the right to have tyrranical, murderous governments that threatened everybody else?"

And the answer is "no". Put another way, nobody in Dresden had the guts to go take a high powered rifle and blow a hole in Adolf Hitler. They paid a horrific price for their cowardice. The people of Falujia didn't put a stop to the terrorists using their town as home base. Now 3/4ths of their homes are blown to hell - as a direct result. Basically, "take care of business or somebody else will do it for you in ways you won't like!!!"

Terrorism IS a lot like piracy. And we had to deal with it the same way: read up on the original "Barbary Coast incident", where the US Marines gets the "shores of Tripoli" thing. It was the first overseas military adventure of the US. We went over and stomped a North African nation that supported piracy.

Sound familiar?

Jim- you might be right, but I think when you annihilate hundreds of thousands of (mostly) innocent people, you've lowered yourself to the level of your opponent (maybe lower). I've got to believe there's a better way than proving we've got the guts to kill like that.

I'm sure the worldwide perception of us could be better if we weren't the only nation to use atomic weapons or one willing to firestorm a city. Especially when we're telling nations they can't have weapons of mass destruction.

OK boyz, here ya go.


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