Dr. Splinelube…or How I stopped worrying and learn to love the bike… - Page 3

JonyRR · 01-03-2005, 02:43 PM

Rapid, I HAVE fixed a big hole in the clutch cover of my husky 390 with some ductape and JB weld whilst 39 miles outta BFegypt...I don't think a clutch R&R on an oilhead can be accomplished with so little gear...
remember the picture of the GS's traversing some mountainous rock garden that was posted here a while back....let's see one of those guys biff a big porker like that and then try to put it back together trailside...ain't gonna happen....

peagan · 01-03-2005, 02:49 PM

Awesome work Repoe !!!
Documenting that task is a job in itself.
Better than any manual by far. Great pics too.
Will definently come in handy when I do my 99' SA. serial # 50508
I"m only at about 9500 miles now... Everything seems cool...
I Was hoping maybe to wait until 20K, but now after what i've been seeing here i'm thinking 15K
I thought lubing the splines on my k75 was a pain...
Guess I was wrong.....
BTW I was using Honda Moly 60 paste on my "K" and it seemed to be working well....
When I sold my K75 (80K miles, just breaking in.....) and moved up to my "S" i was hoping spline lubes were a thing of the past...

thanks!!!
Patrick

Flatbutt1 · 01-03-2005, 03:59 PM

True Repoe and Bill , good job. For me the lesson here is that there is no frickin' way I can do a job like that by myself. Guess I'm gonns have to save my pennies and just hope I don't get stuck in West Goober, in the rain, at night.

Flatbutt1 · 01-03-2005, 04:01 PM

Wait a minute! 4 to 5 hours? Lets see, at $70 per hour thats $350, so the parts for a job like this are over $1500?! I've seen quotes as high as $2400 for this repair. WTF?

Jim March · 01-03-2005, 04:44 PM

Errr...guys, Flatbutt and the like: THIS JOB IS HOME-DOABLE!

OK?

It may look ugly, it may look like total invasive surgery with the patient's guts all over the operating room, but it REALLY isn't that bad! It's just "plain ol' wrenching" - no weird tolerances to check as with a Desmo valve setup, no specialized tools other than figuring out how to hold the back end up, hell, I doubt the torque tolerances are all that big a deal on *anything* here although I'd follow the manual on that stuff.

Still, point is it's basic brute-force engineering with basic home shop tools. No one part coming off (including the tranny) is heavier than one guy can walk off with; the latest Getrags are 28 pounds, this one can't be more than 35 or so, I've walked across office buildings with laser printers double that

.

I still say a rented "cherry picker" rated for a V8 engine could be used to do this job. Use a buttload of nylon strap to tie the front wheel to the base of the picker crane arm and use nylon strap at the heads, lift 'er up. Pull the gas tank first but other than that, no biggie.

RoundelRider · 01-03-2005, 06:54 PM

Excellent write-up Repoe!

Finally something fresh and entertaining around here!

repoe3 · 01-04-2005, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flatbutt
Wait a minute! 4 to 5 hours? Lets see, at $70 per hour thats $350, so the parts for a job like this are over $1500?! I've seen quotes as high as $2400 for this repair. WTF?

ha...4-5 hours with some grease used. but like i said we took all day as we had other things to do as well and dont forget lunch...no other parts required. the fact of the matter is, we unloaded the bike that morning at like 9AM and by 6PM we were riding it.

not sure where that cost figure comes from...maybe bmw recommended shop rates or something. but up here shop rates are about $90/hour and you might as well plan on paying 8 hours as techs may not want to move fast on somthing like this. so that is a little over $700 if nothing else is needed.

now if they get in there and you need a new input shaft, you might want to consider buying a new tranny rather than having that one rebuilt (or that might be how it was estimated). also, if the clutch splines are shoing wear, then there is a cost there. these were not issues for this particular patient, nor did wswarzwelder's. would be nice to think there was something that would make it happy for longer than 15-20k miles.

repoe3

tominator · 03:36 AM

I'm doing mine as we speak, it appears most of these spline related issues are on 01's (Mines a 99) and higher. My bike has 65K on it and spline is in great shape. Clutch plate isn’t too happy thought.....needs replacement. I was the second owner, not sure what the first was up to!

BTW, gearbox side oil seal was leaking badly, I also replaced the crank seals.

Great photos!

Tomas

Firebolter · 03:42 AM

The problem with going to most shops is, they will adjust, look at and fiddle with...but how many would go straight to the shaft joint and just look at it? This is one of those things that unless you have a good dealer and you know precisely what the issue is, you could spend alot more than 5 hours in labor to find it. Nope, sometimes just putting the bike up and taking crap apart is the only way to find out what is wrong and doing that at a dealer can get very pricey.

How many people would have thought that 1 year old BMW would have had that kind of rusted joint? Especially in a so called sealed environment? Looks like if the proper amount of lube was used at the build up originally, repoe might not have ever had to do this till much much later in the bikes life. I think the QA at the assembly facility is in question maybe? Every manufacturer has a bad day and makes a product that is not up to snuff, but damn that was rusty........

SparkyBlue · 01-04-2005, 05:37 AM

KUDOS, and a Good writeup

I try to do as much on my own as possible, and this one gives me the confidence to take it on.

As for grease to use, anyone have experience with Militec-1?

http://www.militec-1.com/

repoe3 · 01-04-2005, 06:04 AM

figure any good strong, synthetic grease that will not fling would do the job. you want it thick enough to do the job. the silkolene stuff we used could be used for bearings and such as well.

repoe3

BlueSguy · 01-04-2005, 10:00 AM

Repoe and wswartzwelder,

This is a thing of beauty, which will be the first reference I will grab when the '04SA starts to show signs of dryness (or I discover that I have a lot of free time I wasn't expecting).

Thanks so much for sharing all that good information and all those great pictures!

damage113 · 01-04-2005, 11:43 AM

Gentlemen - a great post - the pictures and commentary are/will be very useful. My clutch parts are on order. Its slipping and there is fluid seeping from the bell housing. I ordered crank seal but my question
Tomas
once the clutch is out of the way whats the procedure for crank seal and/or tranny seals? Any special tools needed? I am familiar with cage clutches so this seems similar, stopping the leak is my concern.
Oh yeah Jonyrr - you're in Tacoma doing some of this same work? I'll be at McChord this weekend
Out

Moybin · 01-04-2005, 11:50 AM

damage113

You need a decent hot air gun to heat the opposite ends of the tranny. This releases the bearings. You do the back end first, then do the front end. Takes about 10 minutes of gun time each end. Bolts holding tranny together are 10mm if memory serves. Not even torqued real tight. Need a soft headed mallet to smack housing and break the seal on the joint.

Old wrench sockets make the best seal pushers there are. You push out the old seals from the outside of the case, position new seal in place and tap in with a socket that is big enough to completely cover the seal. A couple of stout raps and the seal is in place. Do everything on a block of wood to keep the housings from getting banged up.

ps: mine is at the all the way apart stage. Doing research on spline hard coating right now. Mine is NOT going back together with an untreated surface (re: virgin German splines WILL get manhandled by grubby American vapor technology!)

pss: if you were not losing any engine oil I would not mess with the crank seal.

JonyRR · 01-04-2005, 12:04 PM

Moybin, did you get the address for microplating I sent you? I haven't gotten 'hold of them yet for a price quote...
What's the new input shaft running you and where is it coming from?

Moybin · 01-04-2005, 12:19 PM

JonyRR:

Got Microplating's address. Haven't checked them yet, either. Have been getting quotes and estimates from other high-tech coating suppliers. Looking at titanium-nitride, chromium-nitride and tungsten disulphide right now.

New shaft is listed as $155.29. I will probably get mine from ChicagoBMW, so knock 20% off. Current (and only) quote from "Surface Solutions" in Fridley MN is for $75.00 single piece, $50.00 for lot run of 12 shafts. Their process is applied hot (800F) so they would like to treat my old shaft first to ensure no dimensional changes. They suggest chromium-nitride for our application. Website is www.tincoat.net.

Still waiting on replies from 2 other companies, plus I'm going to call HansenMC when I get off work.

ps; the quote from Surface Solutions is for the whole shaft with the bearing bosses masked off. It's easier for them to do a complete item. 5-7 day turnaround times!

I'm also looking at a company in NC that does a diamond-like carbon coating that is also way up there in slipperyness and harness. It goes on at a much lower temperature. The tungsten disulphide is touted as the slipperyest substance available, more than teflon or moly disulphide. It is applied at room temp with high velocity air.

So there are some choices to be made, and I think cost will be the big lever. All of these coatings claim virtually identical properties and performance.

JonyRR · 01-04-2005, 12:20 PM

here's the site; I asked for a quote for completely coating 2 shafts a while back, and just pinged 'em again. It's time to get the ball rolling. Sounds like you didn't have any trouble pulling the gearbox apart...it looks pretty straightforward. Setting the installed height of the assembled shafts shouldn't be too hard, as there are specs for same in the manual.
here's the website:
http://www.microplating.com

JonyRR · 01-04-2005, 02:07 PM

Moyb, I like the 'alpha' coating (zirconium nitride) from those guys the best; it rockwells harder and is supposedly a superior lubricant. I hope you're getting quotes for a chrome-moly shaft also......I tend to think poor heat-treat and poor base material are at least partly to blame for the shaft splines going away.

Raven · 01-04-2005, 02:44 PM

Why doesn't BMW put a permanent coating like that? At least an easy access port to make it easier to maintain it.

Every BMW I have owned has that same issue and the same major job to complete this basic maintance!

JonyRR · 01-04-2005, 02:51 PM

Bekaus zee germanz haf dteremined exxxactally which unitzzzz kom to amerika antd made sure dat dose unitzzz hadt zeee defektif transmission shaftzzz...it vas der vay of gettingk even vor losink ze var....