Dr. Splinelube…or How I stopped worrying and learn to love the bike… - Page 4

Moybin · 01-04-2005, 03:42 PM

JonyRR, et al:

The price I was quoted seems to apply to any of their coatings. The rep on the phone said he thought that the chrome-nitride would be better because it builds up about twice as thick. He did say the Alpha coating would be the best of the others.

More updates:
HansenMC DOES NOT recondition splines on late model BMWs. Thats all R1100x R1150x & R1200x, K1100 and K1200 bikes. They only do the bikes listed on their website. They did tell me that the weld metal is actually SOFTER than the original BMW materials (in old R and K bikes) and actually wears better! They don't see many input spline problems (remember they ARE a dealer) but how many S bikes can there be in the greather Medford area?

We know from frequenting other forums that the this is NOT a minor problem or a hit-and-miss problem or a "You flogged it too hard" problem. This is crappy design: PERIOD. In 1980 it might have been acceptable. Today, with all the coatings available, this is just stupid bean-counter driven problem.

I will compile all the info and links I've gathered so far and create a new thread. May be a day or two as I would like to get more info collected.

JonyRR · 01-05-2005, 07:25 AM

Yeah, Moybin; I heard back from the microplating folks and they don't think it will hold up adaquately; thier coating rockwells at 38; I think it's time for the 'alpha' coating; it's Rc is 78...that should be plenty, and it IS thin; I'm concerned about overall coating thickness; I want to keep the dimensions as close to OEM as possible....

tominator · 01-05-2005, 07:41 AM

It would be interesting to see if the new Boxer design includes a updated shaft/gearbox.

There had to be some rational behind the production changes....

Tomas

jweicht · 01-08-2005, 05:00 AM

repoe3 - Went through your thorough disassembly procedure again and I came up with another question. I'm aware of the retaining clip securing the forward end of the driveshaft to the gearbox output shaft, and that you just pop it free by levering the driveshaft with a screwdriver. I did the same thing when pulling apart R1100RSs, but always with the Paralever housing removed which gave me great access. On assembly, I'd pop the driveshaft back onto the retaining clip by lightly smacking the back of the driveshaft, then reinstall the Paralever housing over it. The question: What did you do to get the driveshaft back over the retaining clip with such limited access? Did that pose any special problems? Yanking the whole back end as an assembly sure is nice.

Jim March · 01-08-2005, 05:34 AM

Tominator: we know the "hexhead" drivetrain is fairly radically different in some ways: big hollow rear axle, new five-bolt rear rim versus the four on everything previous, and the para arm is on the top instead of bottom. The final drive joint is way different.

They also seem to be saying the tranny is overall lighter so that means it's a whole 'nuther gearbox if true.

So yeah, looks like there's all kinds of changes.

Flatbutt1 · 01-08-2005, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim March

They also seem to be saying the tranny is overall lighter so that means it's a whole 'nuther gearbox if true.

Depending on how they lightened the gearbox, I wonder if lightening is really an improvement. Unless of course they're using "space age" metals.

Jim March · 01-08-2005, 06:09 AM

Well yeah, that's a good question

.

BUT...they DID seem to get the R1200GS variant working OK? The pair of new streetbikes are using the same basic motor/frame/tranny setup tuned for another 10hp or so. I would think the grunt of the GS variant would have torn those trannies apart if there were basic strength issues.

That leaves the whole question of "long term reliability" and that's more a materials quality thing (and tolerances) than "beefiness".

wswartzwel · 06:18 AM

I use a small bar that fits in the front ujoint to pop the spline back together. You do this as you are reattaching the rear frame. Be careful how far you slide the shaft forward or it will become disconnected from the rear drive unit, as Repoe discovered. after you pop the spline together then you can slide the frame forward the last inch or so to begin starting the mounting bolts. The bar I use is made by snap-on and is 7/16 square and 2 feet long. it fits into the Ujoint and you can push the yoke up onto the shaft... you may need to tap it with a mallet to get the yoke to pop onto the retainer.

Quote:

Originally posted by jweicht
repoe3 - Went through your thorough disassembly procedure again and I came up with another question. I'm aware of the retaining clip securing the forward end of the driveshaft to the gearbox output shaft, and that you just pop it free by levering the driveshaft with a screwdriver. I did the same thing when pulling apart R1100RSs, but always with the Paralever housing removed which gave me great access. On assembly, I'd pop the driveshaft back onto the retaining clip by lightly smacking the back of the driveshaft, then reinstall the Paralever housing over it. The question: What did you do to get the driveshaft back over the retaining clip with such limited access? Did that pose any special problems? Yanking the whole back end as an assembly sure is nice.

Moybin · 01-08-2005, 08:06 AM

Sitting here looking at my tranny in a dozen pieces I can't see where it could be substantially lightened. The case is compact with very little void space around the gears and shafts. The gears could be made smaller in diameter, but I think that would add stresses, requiring even better steel. Don't know of any practical replacement alloy for steel in gears. Nothing else wears like it or has the strength.

Sorry, just don't see how this could be the same tranny and be made lighter.

Effervescent · 01-08-2005, 08:24 AM

The guy who started this thread is THE MAN!

-Eff

jweicht · 01-08-2005, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wswartzwel
I use a small bar that fits in the front ujoint...

Got it! Thanks.

Moybin · 02-15-2005, 05:14 PM

New, chromium nitride coated input shaft has arrived! While it is not startlingly different in appearance from an untreated shaft, it feels more slippery than the old shaft.

New bearings pressed in place. Constant speed gear and dog were coated with GunKote, a molydisulfide and teflon treatment. Same treatment done to the new clutch bushing.

Tomorrow it all starts to go back together. Wish me luck.

ps: Surface Solutions was excellent at putting the coating on and getting the shaft back to me. It has been exactly 7 days since I mailed it to them, 2 day priority. Mike Schultz was great to deal with.

Peter Parts · 03-02-2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tominator
I'm doing mine as we speak, it appears most of these spline related issues are on 01's (Mines a 99) and higher. My bike has 65K on it and spline is in great shape. Clutch plate isn’t too happy thought.....needs replacement. I was the second owner, not sure what the first was up to!

BTW, gearbox side oil seal was leaking badly, I also replaced the crank seals.

Great photos!

Tomas

99 and 00 shafts in better shape than later bikes: is that generally true or not?

repoe3 · 03-02-2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Parts
99 and 00 shafts in better shape than later bikes: is that generally true or not?

not sure if that has any merit, honestly. i think they just had a lazy twit assembling the bike for a while. he/she didnt like to overuse lube, so they went out nearly dry.

repoe3

Moybin · 03-02-2006, 08:33 AM

What repoe3 said is my gut impression too. Mine was an early 99 S/N 383 of the USA distribution. Mine had 75K+ miles on it and about 25% wear of the teeth. Others with newer bikes tell horror stories about 10K and splines gone. Typical Quality Control problem: Hans and Franz do it right at first because QC is watching close. QC gets soft in the head because everything going smoothly, and stops looking over shoulders. Hans and Franz take note and stop doing what they are supposed to be doing. A very normal HUMAN problem, not associated with race, creed, color or religious affiliation. Just another dumb human trick.

Flatbutt1 · 03-02-2006, 08:49 AM

kinda makes me glad I got 50089

gdobler · 03-02-2006, 09:14 AM

And here I was feeling good about myself for installing the Suburban Machinery footpeg lowering kit myself and not breaking anything.

850dunstall · 03-02-2006, 09:15 AM

I know that the loctited rear pivot bearings have been the topic of many subjects, but for my unexperience eyes did you take any pictures showing where the threads buggered up?

i gather that there are threads on the pivot and in the aluminium driveshaft tube, so which one gets buggered and what can be done to prevent it?

over all not a tough job, is gets a little more involved if u have abs brakes

thanks in advance

wswartzwel · 09:39 AM

Use heat to help kill the loctite, and go slow. The pins are softer than the cast housing so they are more likely to lose some metal.... if you encounter problems at all.
Mine came apart nicely, Repoes had some kind of gremlins though, probably too much time on the east coast... His RH pin is missing (unless he has gotten around to replacing it) the first 1.5 threads, which are in a pile of shavings somewher under my lathe.

repoe3 · 03-02-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wswartzwel
Use heat to help kill the loctite, and go slow. The pins are softer than the cast housing so they are more likely to lose some metal.... if you encounter problems at all.
Mine came apart nicely, Repoes had some kind of gremlins though, probably too much time on the east coast... His RH pin is missing (unless he has gotten around to replacing it) the first 1.5 threads, which are in a pile of shavings somewher under my lathe.

still in there. have all the parts in my fastener box. waiting for spring for ride to a buddy's in richmond to do the swap.

and if you recall, we (read: you) jammed the allen tool in the pin, so it is nicely disfigured there as well

repoe3