Problem

[Kieran R1100S]

I live in Australia where the roads are crap, I mean real *****, a test for any bike and rider. And depending on how you ride a challenge for any suspension.
I traded the 11s for the 12s. I have had it for 3 months and put 4,000km on it.
The 11s I put Wilber suspension front and rear and adjusted it to work over any serfice. They did a superb job, no complaints.Took them off when I sold and still have them. The 12s I have came with Ohlins, suppose top shelf I'm led to believe. The first problem I had with the 12 was a bad vibration through the bars, turn out to be a tight motor sending the vibration to the bars. Took 1,500km to go away, thats how I know it was the motor. The problem I have now is that I get a floating sensation from this bike. Doesn't matter how much I adjust the suspension to some degree it is still there. I have always prided myself on being able to adjust suspension as I have had problems before with bikes and have found solutions to set them up just right for me. But this one on the 12s will not go away, and I think I have found out why. I was sipping a beer the other day looking at my bike as I have carbon-ed her up and was ogling her when I saw it. The drive shaft on the 12s is arse about to the 11s. That being the torque arm is on top rather than underneath on the 11s. That causing the the shaft to fall Rather than rise. Which ever way you look at it. Both bikes hit the same road the shaft is acting opposite. Where the 11 rises the 12 will fall. On the 11 working with the front paralever while the 12 isn't. Causing this floating sensation I am getting out of her. While the torque arm on the 11 is on the bottom it has to be working differently to the 12. That is where I think this is coming from.
Has anyone felt this? Where the 11 hits a bump it tends to settle pretty much straight away as on the 12 it likes pogoing along.
Think about it before you jump straight in.
The 11 with the torque arm on the bottom, has the wheel rising up when it first hits the bump then the shaft lays down on itself. The 12 on the other hand with the torque arm on the top also rises up but cant lay down giving a differant affect. Think about the pivot point. Its completely different. That is where I think I am getting this problem from.
Has anybody that has come from a 11s to a 12s felt this sensation?

Thanks

[hjr1100s]

Have to give it some thought. I too came from an 1100S to an 1200S and can't deny they do feel different.

...

HJ

[RoLoo]

...have to give it some thought. I too came from an 1100S to an 1200S and can't deny they do feel different...

...






...hey, funny...
...same reply...

[hjr1100s]

I'd expected you to reply, Ron. You also mentioned an 'unsettled' feeling on your R1200S.

It feels like front and rear suspension are not in balance: like the rear is lagging behind (well it actually does ofcourse) ...

HJ

[feds27]

I'm pretty sure the front Ohlins on the R12S is an emulsion type shock (it's not gas and does not have a remote reservoir). From what I was told, emulsion shocks will tend to build up more and bubbles as your ride progresses so by the end of your ride they can tend to be softer and more pogo like. I'm sure one of the techie guys on the forum can expand or correct me on this.

FYI, Steve Carlton had his Ohlins upgraded and provided more info in this thread......

Upgrading the R1200S Ohlins

[RoLoo]

...I've noticed the HP2, the R12S, and the Endurance's Öhlins rear shock all look the same, but the spring numbers are completely different...

...I still believe the springs on the R12S are too soft...
...and IMO that causes 'the problem'...

...and I'll try changing the pressure in the rear tire...
...because I've noticed the tire pressure on the 12 makes a lot of difference...


spring# on the Endurance racer L=336



spring# on the HP2Sport L=167



...I believe the R12S has something like L=206...




...can someone explain me (us !) these L-numbers...??

...first I thought, the higher the L-number, the more rigid the spring would be...
...but seeing that the L-number on the 12S is higher, than on the HP2Sport, I'm not sure anymore...

...I've also noticed that with a passenger (my youngest son ; so not a real heavy load) that 'loose' backend feeling is totally gone...

[ckcarr]

Don't know about that, but a few of us have managed to clip the rear license plate holder with the rear tire.



r1200s license plate bracket bending

[hjr1100s]

Here's some paralever explanation:

http://www.largiader.com/paralever/

HJ

[atypical1]

Something is definitely wrong as you should not have a pogo effect at all.

I have had Ohlins on my past couple of bikes and they have always impressed me with their ability to work on any surface so your comments surprise me.

I did notice that the R12S seems to "float" at times when I am not pushing the bike but once I start to push it then it gets much more focused. I always thought that was a feature of telelever/paralever and not of the Ohlins (my last two bikes didn't do that and had conventional suspension).

Not to get personal but what do you weigh? I am 210 lbs (95kg) with gear which might be helping me out with my suspension (but it's just a guess).

Springs aren't all that expensive and the ability to rebuild the Ohlins are definitely a selling point for me.

Good luck with this problem and keep us informed.

james

[dee jones]

Others here know more than I so you'll et good sound advice. Depending on your weight, you may need to go to a stiffer spring .

[markjenn]

Unsure what the issue is, but I doubt it has anything to do with the paralever being on the top rather than the bottom.

- Mark

[Bob Hancock]

I haven't noticed any pogo-plushy ride that I couldn't dial out with spring preload/damping adjustments. Since I didn't notice any of this on my R12GS with the same kinda top side paralever arm, I suspect that isn't causing the problem. The paralever arm shouldn't really affect the action of the suspension should it, other than to locate (high or low) where it starts it's business. Your Aussie roads may have just beat the suspension so bad it's given up.

Another minor observation.....friend has an early R12S and he gets that kind of action from the front and is having difficulty dialing that away. I think he just needs to add more damping.....we'll see.

Tis a puzzlement.

[Kieran R1100S]

Hey guys I am 95kg, and some of your comments like, unsettled and the spring is to soft makes me feel it is just not me experiencing this. here are some photos of my springs settings and tyre use. As you can see i have a lot of preload dialed in. I think that the springs are to soft, and it is also the action and direction of the rear shaft. look at the photos of the different shafts and you will see they move differently.

[BrandonS]

The "L" number would be the uncompressed spring length in millimeters I assume.

[Bob Hancock]

My spring is a 170-L266. Not sure what that means but I recall Nate explaining to me the differences in early and late models. He said I had the "good" one and I think it had to do with the overall length of the shock but I'm real mushy on that.

I understand the differences in location of the paralever between the R11s and the R12S but still don't think it's relevant. Of course I could be wrong.
PS....my friends early model R12S (cuurently at my house) has a rear spring with a 170-L036 stamped on it. No point intended....just another data point.

[RoLoo]

...weird ; these L-numbers...

L336 on the Endurance boxer
L336 on Kieran's bike
L206 on my bike
L167 on the HP2Sport I saw at Assen
L266 on Bob's bike
and L036 on the bike Bob has around the house

[RoLoo]

...Googled around a bit ; and it turns out this Öhlins L-number is a production batch number !...

...so easy...




How To Read An Ohlins Spring Code

1091-34/100 is an example of a code you will find on an Ohlins shock spring. Using the below charts you can “decode” what you are looking at.


The 1091 refers to the diameter and the length of the spring. Almost all Ohlins springs have a diameter of 57mm so that’s easy, the 1091 in this case means it has a 160mm length (when not on the shock)

The -34 is the spring rate. For some unknown reason Ohlins uses it’s own numbers to label rate, but below on the rate conversion chart you can cross reference this number. In this case a -34 is a 10nm or 10.19kg or 571lb spring

The /100 is the springs rate in Newton meters, but without the decimal. In this case the /100 means it’s a 10.0nm spring.



Spring Length Chart

1093 - 150 mm - 5.9"

1091 - 160 mm - 6.3"

1092- 170 mm - 6.7"


More from Shazaam!

1091-31 is the Ohlins code for a 160mm (6.3 in) long 57mm I.D. spring having a spring rate of 95N/mm (542 lbs/in). Suitable for a monoposto rider+gear weighing more than 265 lbs. or a biposto rider+gear weighing 235-245 lbs.

where:
/95 = 90N/mm stiffness
L090 = production batch number

1091-29 is the Ohlins code for a 160mm (6.3 in) long 57mm I.D. spring having a spring rate of 90N/mm (514 lbs/in)
Suitable for a monoposto rider+gear weighing 245-265 lbs. or a biposto rider+gear weighing 220-235 lbs.

where:
/90 = 90N/mm stiffness
200 = production batch number

[RoLoo]

...so the 1092-69 / L206 I have is a :...

...170 mm (or 6.7") spring length...
...and a spring rate of 170N/mm (or 971 lbs/in)
...and L206 the production batch number, so we can forget about that...



...and looking at this (Ducati) chart, a 110N/mm spring is suitable for a 220-235 lbs (or 100-105 kilo) rider...

...looking a bit closer to this chart though ; the 100+N/mm spings are mostly for a Biposto Duc...
...being the R12S suitable for two up riding, I can understand BMW’s 100+N/mm choice, and now I understand why, when I have my son on the passenger seat, the handling is better than when I'm alone...





...one almost thinks, with me being only 82 kilo (181 lbs, naked... ), the stock spring on the R12S, when not pushing the bike hard, might be a bit too stiff (for me)...!




...thoughts ?...

(please correct me if I'm completely wrong BTW)

[Bob Hancock]

Excellent research, Ron. Both of the bikes at my house have the same 01092-69 springs that you have. So at least there's some commonality there. I'm not so sure the Ducati numbers are applicable though as the suspension linkage is different so I suspect the springs needed would be different based solely on that. But then what do I know.

[RoLoo]

Originally Posted by Bob Hancock

A)

Excellent research, Ron. Both of the bikes at my house have the same 01092-69 springs that you have. So at least there's some commonality there. I'm not so sure the Ducati numbers are applicable though as the suspension linkage is different so I suspect the springs needed would be different based solely on that.

B)

But then what do I know.

A)

…’strange’ thing is ; as well as the HP2Sport, as the Endurance racer use a 01092-69 spring…
…and those bike are more or less designed to push hard, and even harder (the Endurance racer)…

…and ‘yes’ ; I also think the Ducati numbers are not applicable, but it was the only thing I could find regarding the Öhlins numbers, in relation to the rider's weight…


B)

…well... ; same over here…