R1100S Custom Triple Clamps - 3rd Edition

[roger albert]

...with all your racing and track time, the business to run and such, do you even ride much on the street, Roger? ...just curious... no setup, not a trick question.

Didn't take it as such Ralf.

I hadn't much the last 2 years. From mid-April through late-October, I only had one weekend away from the track. (Only stopped then due to extensive surgery.)But when gas was sky-high, I went from riding on the street a couple times a month, to most days, albeit mostly commuting/parts-chasing. Almost all on the S.

Not sure how relevant it is, or how it plays vis-a-vis the mass-placebo-effect obviously in effect here, but it is true, that I don't ride on the street that much. It's so far from the limit that I don't find it very interesting. To each their own.

Useless anecdote: None of the really fast guys racing the 11S, even with the much greater grip provide by slicks, seemed to notice all this deflection. I race some bikes with a bunch of fork deflection, and know what it feels like, but I don't see it on our Ss. I could of course be too slow or insensitive to detect it. The S feels kinda boaty anyway, so I might be horribly miscalibrated.

[roger albert]

I'm beginning to think some of you think that us riders with the upgraded triple clamps have so much billet induced wood that we've lost the ability to gauge any difference in the performance of our bikes.

Yes, some do seem to think that

[signit98]

Originally Posted by roger albert

so I might be horribly miscalibrated.

Careful what you open the door for, Roger!

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by SergioK

Don't believe us, ride a bike with them, simple as that.

I'd love to (any volunteers in the Puget Sound area?), but at the same time, it really wouldn't be definitive given the number of variables that can influence handling, particularly tires, shocks, and general chassis setup. That's the problem with these sorts of things - it is almost a universal law that the more difficult it is to verify a claim, the more outlandish they tend to become. Don't take this as a slight - just stating a fact of human nature. If there were no such thing as dynos, all aftermarket exhaust systems would double horsepower.

- Mark

[JonyRR]

There's already a large body of admittedly anecdotal evidence out there by riders who are well qualified to evaluate handling. the response has been overwhelmingly positive; there is no such thing as a handling dyno to empirically with numbers quantify the 'feel'.
So you pays your money and takes your chances. I believe if they didn't live up to their hype that folks would say so.
Scott IS a friend of mine and I DO have a set on the bench, which will go on during Xmas break, but I will report honestly either way after my own eval...I doubt Scott would have it any other way; he's an honest, forthright and decent human being who is a very talented designer and a genuine bike nut. You could do very much worse for having a parts designer.
As for the horse's azz spouting off about things he's never seen or tried, it seems that, from a layman's perspective, the doctor is much sicker than any potential patients. It seems to be a truisim that psyhrinks are way more weird than the inmates.

[Peter Parts]

Originally Posted by motoyoyo

Heya Ben, fancy meeting you over here. You remind me of the kid on the playground that is always getting beat up and just made friends with the big kid on the block.

Here's one for you...

What did the psychiatrist say when PeterParts showed up at the office wrapped in Saran wrap....

Ben, I can clearly see your nuts!!!

Now, run along little boy and leave the big kids alone for a while.

Your comment is pure abuse and needlessly abrasive. Nothing helpful to say except pointless ridicule, Scott? No actual measurements of how much flex is reduced using your clamps? Seems a trivial effort to do the measurements if you really want to do them.

I read through some of the testimonials about your clamps, some from people I greatly respect. But, I have to say, they reminded me of the testimonial I recently got from my audio club about fancy/bling loudspeaker wires. You know of course, that such wires are considered pure hoax and Placebo Effect. But here's what one fellow wrote to the club:

"The change was nothing short of amazing - that is all I can say. Phyllis immediately noticed it as well. Incredible high end extension and complete clarity in the midrange. So much so that it actually moved the vocals out front on one particular recording, where previously they were more toward the rear. If I had not had another person with me, I may have thought that I imagined the change, but it is not imaginary.

... but I can certainly say that this was the best $120 that I have spent in a while. It makes the Monster Cable that I was using sound like crap. I am still wondering what difference there may have been... but it sounds so good that I ain't gonna mess with it... a profound and immediate change for the better."

Now, that's a great testimonial (for a complete hoax). Time to measure, Scott, not post insults.

[motoyoyo]

Ben, I apologize for making jokes in your direction in particular and I will try not to do so in the future. You have to admit that was pretty funny in general though if it hadn't been directed at you. Oh well, humor is also an intangible I suppose.

If this were an engineering project that required documentation then there would indeed be more lab testing and data generated. In that case, the project would probably be on a much larger scale and there would be extra money generated to pay someones time to do these tests.

In many cases, a designer is willing to take a chance and have an actual prototype made based on his designs and test in an actual real world environment. This is the approach I took and was more than satisfied with the results. Whether there are laboratory deflection measurements or not does not change what can be felt through your own perception, and that is all that matters in the end.

Maybe you can find more info on the whole conspiracy here www.tripleclampmassplaceboeffect.com
disclaimer: no abuse nor reckless disregard for varying interpretations and/or humorous intent intended

[Peter Parts]

Scott -

I appreciate your conciliatory and measured response to my post. Thanks.

In the same spirit, and obvious enough, my skepticism is not based on personal trial or measurement. But it is skepticism and certainly a strong reserve about testimonials from guys who just plunked down $700 for an exciting mod, especially when you can't do a controlled A-B test (or A-B-B-A test) with quick switching between new and old clamps and you certainly can't do double-blind testing.

It would be good to see some kind of structural analysis presented, either what you did before bashing metal or retroactively. Not for my benefit because it would be over my head but to help others. Likewise, in my naive judgment, it should not be hard to set up a dial-test-indicator and a force scale (the kind used for measuring suspension spring rate or even a bathroom scale) and give the forks a shove with the new and old clamps. You could even find out if flex, if much, is helped more by the upper or lower clamp. or if just the activity of snugging-up all the pieces and getting the grit off the ball joints is what helps the most.

I don't know how well they work but I 'd like to see evidence.

Perhaps indelicately, I raised the subject of price. It wouldn't hurt to introduce some element of "transparency" here, to use the current cliche. You don't have to but it would be nice. There are some implicit ground rules about using PP for flogging businesses as compared to well-meant great amateur stuff, like RapidDog and yours.

There are dealers on the list and most have been exemplary in their restraint, none more so than Roger himself. But a few days ago, a fellow who I think runs a touring service had some kind of offer about European bike trips - not sure which side of the line he's on and he sure forgot to post any clear disclaimer?

[throttlemeister]

You are so pathetic.

[Rapid Dog]

...O.K. show him Scott...

[GUS]

Well well well
Funny how some people have such a great insight/experience of something they have never tried.Word of advice.Keep your gob shut until you have ACTUALLY tried the items you seem to know so much or is that little about.But then again,if you did try them and you felt or noticed any different i doubt you would say anything for fear of maybe being proved wrong.
I have tried a S with and without the clamps.My verdict is that they make a difference.For the better.Simple as that.Maybe some can tell ,maybe some cant or dont notice any difference.I could.
Now get this.I havent paid scott any money for any clamps,nor do i know him from adam.
Some people on here gone on about people giving out false tech advice and get their knickers in a twist about it.
Unless you,ve tried things for self,shut the **** up.
gus

[JonyRR]

I heard that some of the 'boyz' from The Rock Machine were going to be showing up on ******'s doorstep to 'splain sumptin' to him
Pictures at 11
(cue up the Rolling Stones' 'Black and Blue' for the soundtrack)

[roger albert]

OK guys,
Everyone play nice. Not another Fing word back and forth on this.
People get riled up on some technical issue, and then call people's
integrity and judgment into question and then get angry and upset
and I get a slew of PMs from multiple parties and even phonecalls
at my place of business while trying to work a bit. It's gone too far.

Frigging behave. I'm lifting my personal ban on bans.
Never done it before -- might happen before long.