…how to mess-up your R12S pipes and cat in a few simple steps…
 

…how to mess-up your R12S pipes and cat in a few simple steps… ;)





…this little wish of mine was a set of pipes without a cat. …
…but no brand (Laser/HPE/Remus etc.) would fit properly in combination with the belly pan…

…so ; this is what I did…

…last week I bought me a set of brand new, original pipes, got me a few Dremel ‘Heavy Duty Cut-Off wheels’, and gave me an hour (or so) in the garage in order to let the cat out…

…I could only be a very simple job...
...I thought…

…but that cat was somewhat bigger than I expected to be…

…I honestly thought : ‘cut off that chromed top, and throw that cat away…



…but you can see it in picture # 2 ; there is some sort of (a very tough !) inner shell, and that inner shell is firmly welded to the outer one…

…so, I took another few of those Dremel cut-off thingies, and cut that inner shell in half…

…and from there it isn’t that hard anymore…



…I’m half way, and with the cutting and such, it took my some 2 hours to come this far…

…BTW ; you can still see the other half of the inner shell, and I will leave that half where it is (because it is welded to the outer one, as I mentioned)…



new set of pipes. I will keep the ones that came on the bike as a spare

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...6Image0050.jpg



top of the cat’s outer shell is already gone (and I was surprised to see this inner shell) :mad:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...6Image0052.jpg



half of the inner shell is gone too :cool:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...6Image0053.jpg



yes, yes, yes, half of it is gone...

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...6Image0054.jpg




…I’ll keep you guys posted regarding the final result… SmileWavy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the metals inside a catalytic converter highly carcingenic. If so, I hope you are using proper ventilation and air filtering for your lungs.

I thought that the metals in the cat were Platinum, myself. Not sure if it's mixed with anything else, though, other than all of the carcinogenic crap that's spewed out of the engine into it.

If that's all platinum leaf, it would be nice to be able to melt it down and sell it at market value by the ounce, but I'm about 90% certain that it doesn't really work that way...

No, not all the metal in a cat is platinum. If it were, then it would be worth several millions of dollars, considering that 1 ounce of the stuff is about U$D1000. They bond minute amounts of platinum to other metals, but I'm not sure what kinds.

Um ... a hammer and a big punch poked up the tail pipe, will shatter that stuff... then pour it out. no dremel needed.

And ...........you guys worry too much about carcinogens... Go smoke a few cigars and that will clear that platinum right out of your system. :D

I think he should take that platinum into Amsterdam and trade it for some 'AK47' at the nearest coffeehouse (pronounced cough-ey house:) )

Rick Steves said the AK blend was the best at one of his seminars...

Traditional automotive cats are honeycomb ceramic based units that have a cerium oxide coating as the primary catalytic material with sprinkles of platinum and palladium thrown in for good measure. (Sergio, you were surrounded by cerium when you picked up the SN Memorial cowl at Mountain Pass. The ore we mine contains cerium as well as the rest of the rare earth elements, so not to worry, ya aint gonna keel over ;) )

I hear that the motorcycle cats are not ceramic based because of the severe vibration from a typical MC engine (go figure) so the honeycomb is made of nickel (as seen in RoLoo's photos). Not sure of the catalyst mix but would guess they have figured a way to plasma spray cerium oxide with parts per million levels of Pt and Pd on the surfaces to act in the same way an auto unit would......

Brock

And the objective of all this time/expense is...?

- Mark

I assumed for our entertainment. And so far as I am concerned, it's working.

;)

Interestingly, RoLoo's cutaway shows anything but a honeycomb structure. RoLoo, have you examined the catalytic insert more closely? Can you say anything about the support structure those curly bits are attached too?

Ron I hope you didnt pay too much for those pipes, because you could have bought a Remus header pretty cheap.

They are already destroyed in his picture and from that angle you would not see it anyway, as it is flow-through and not up and down in the cat...

Brock, thanks for the info. That was a fun jaunt up there... boy I miss my old bike. I'll have to stop by again some day.

I did all that to a K12RS pipe a few yrs ago.

Cat chamber was 2 layers thick also, with a layer of perf metal and steel mesh (think steel wool) between the layers.
Once inside the chamber I found 2 separate cats for cyls 1/2 and 3/4.

There was not perceptible gain in performance, exhaust note is very slightly more 'throaty'.

My main goal, other than just to 'know how', was to get rid of all the heat that the cat held in the chamber directly below my gearbox, I HATED hearing that thing creak and pop with heat, and having the muffler canister boil spit 15 minutes after the bike was shut down.

MUCH COOLER now.

...only 100 Euros (some 142 bucks)...; so pretty cheap...

...and I 'need' the original shape of the pipes in combintion with the belly pan, that is the reason why I didn't bought a set of aftermarket pipes...

...I'll try to make a picture for you !...

...BTW ; I 'made' those curly bits, in order to remove that metal cat. ...

...I wish life was this simple...

...I can hammer all day on that thing, but it's a (very tough, and firmly welded) metal cat, not a ceramic one...

Ron-

What type of floor covering is that?

RB

:) ...just plain simple (office) carpet...

Thanks, RB

Just a interesting note on removing the cat... There is a BMW dealer here in SA that does the same procedure. However, you may get low down torque to suffer if you do this. This is my reasoning...

The cat produces some back pressure in the system, hence a specific diameter tube is specified for the headers. With the removal of the cat, gas is flowing more freely, lower back pressure and the tubing diameter stays the same. This normally results in higher peak output, but lower torque values at the lower/middle rpm range.

I have an Akro system on my bike and it is interesting to note that the header tubing dia is actually smaller than the stock unit's. This system increases middle rpm torque quite a bit.

Another comment that I have heard is that due to our bikes running lean, increasing the gas flow, will lean it out more, resulting in pre-ignition and damage to the piston tops. (There was a recall on some bikes due to running too lean). It will make sense to have a piggy back computer to correct A/F ratio.

A dyno print of a std system compared to a cat-less system compared to a cat-less system with piggy back will be interesting though! :)

Cheers

Here is a picture of cat on my R1200S, showing the honeycomb structure , before I changed the headers , no doubt some time in the past Ron's looked like this too , only cleaner ;)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1221736205.jpg

...low down torque : I know, but I don't care. Most of the time you can find me between the 5000 and 8000 rpm...
...and if 'my system' won't work, I'll probably go back to something with custom made welded tubing, using the rest of the (stock front) headers...

...and this running lean problem ; I have a RapidBike, and had a couple of runs on a dyno once to get A/F ratio right...
...so probably I need another few runs to get the new set up right...

...two charts...




...this first chart : a R1200S with BOS headers, and stock exhaust (no RapidBike)...

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...ensdiagram.jpg



...my chart : with RapidBike and with stock headers & exhaust...

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...indstand-1.jpg


...you can cleary see, those BOS headers (without the cat) give better performance around 5000 RPM in comparison with my chart, but less torque around 3000 RPM...

That's not a trade-off I'd make on my bike. Stealth Pipes are my choice. I don't want them to know I'm there until I'm not.

...that's the reason why I bought a (relatively cheap) second set of pipes, and didn't fool around with the original set...

...and empty... :)

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...8Image0010.jpg



...BTW ; these headers are made by LAFRANCONI... (http://www.lafranconisilenziatori.com/eng/index.htm)

...famous in the old days for their Ducati & Guzzi exhausts...

Surrounded by the guts of a cat converter.........

http://www.blueskyok.com/SNL3/conten...e/DSCN7267.jpg

Brock

So cat converter innards can cause rapid cell duplication and splitting?

ZB52080... RIP 11-17-2007 snif sniff....

Look at the state of those shoes, tsk tsk.

...slippers my friend ; slippers... :)


...RT & slippers go very well together... :D



http://www.mantjetexel.nl/drupal/fil...s/IMG_9761.jpg

+1 yep I've heard of this method (not on R1200S but on a car cat) without the need for a dremel.

...as said ; the R12S is a metal cat, not a ceramic one...

Hmmm

PS: all in all > was the whole thing worthy?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1221841574.jpg

...don't know yet ; first I have to find me a TIG-welder, who can weld me the few bits and pieces (outer shell) nicely back together again...

...MIG welding isn't a problem for me, but TIG is a different lingo...

RoLoo:

Since my time on this site your one of my favorite people, also I really like the way you have your 12S set up! However, for about $500 to $700 U.S. dollars one can get a Remus, Lazer, or HPE header/cat removal system, which was designed/tested to get max. H.P. performance/get rid of the 5K flat spot, without any fuss or muss. Anyway, I appreciate the time, energy and meticulous approach you put into this project (you really do some nice work!) but to me it’s overkill, and in the end it would be interesting to know much this actually cost?

Mike K.
gray/silver 12S
Dana Point, CA.

a) He bought the exhaust off of a wreck, or otherwise used, for not very much.

2) None of the aftermarket headers work with the belly pan.

He's mentioned both of these points already in this thread, as far as I know.

...thanx !...

...of course I would like having the HPE pipes, or something else, but I also like the belly pan I have, and aftermarket headers in combination with the belly pan is a serious no go...

...and these stock replacement headers were only some 140 bucks (100 Euros)...
...ad a bit of welding, and maybe some time on a dyno...

...so, worth a try (I thought)... :)