FRK'n Nice!

[2wheelmike]

I just got back from Santa Barbara Motorsports after dyno'ing my stock R12S with only a full-Akrapovic exhaust and oxygen sensors connected:


And again with my new Blue air filter from Santa Cruz BMW and my PowerFRK plug-n-play trickster module. I did the change-over while the bike was on the dyno in about 5 minutes. Here are the results:


As you can see, both HP and torque are up noticeably. So it's not just the fact that my wallet is a bit lighter. Also note the A/F ratio is dropped significantly too. and the A/F gyrations are more tame at low RPMs, which might have something to do with my perception of smoother off/on throttle transitions? In any event, I'm very happy with the combo. Unfortunately, I didn't have the $$ to do a run with just the new air filter and no FRK or just FRK and stock air filter, though Robert says that my unit is optimized for a hi-flow air filter and full exhaust. Apparently, they can even retune it slightly if I want. Keith at SB Motorsports says that the A/F ratio is probably even a little too rich. Time to go for a ride

[smallj]

Good deal. I just installed a Techlusion on my otherwise stock R1200S. Seat of the pants dyno says that it's a really nice add on. I'm still playing with the settings to make it as smooth as possible. Next thing I need to do is save $1600 for the full Akra system.

[2wheelmike]

Hopefully you can get an opportunity to post dyno sheets as well. I'm sure many would be interested in the comparison.

Another data point was sent to me by Robert Foster for an R1200R, this one at 75% throttle:


And at 100% throttle:


It seems strange at first, but I guess it's possible to have larger gains at part throttle. FWIW, my results are 100% throttle. I didn't even consider doing dyno runs at part throttle. Maybe the expert tuners on this board can enlighten me?

[2wheelmike]

A couple more questions:

What wire do people use for placing an RPM pick-up? I had to do a little surgery on the spark plug wire loom to get to the coil primary wire to hook up the dyno. The guy running the dyno-jet said he didn't have any references to alternate locations for BMWs.

Also, the dyno guy asked if BMWs have an air injection port? Clearly none is obvious, but he said that some bikes implement this inside the head, not in the exhaust headers.

[shreddr]

Originally Posted by 2wheelmike

Hopefully you can get an opportunity to post dyno sheets as well. I'm sure many would be interested in the comparison.

Another data point was sent to me by Robert Foster for an R1200R, this one at 75% throttle:


And at 100% throttle:


It seems strange at first, but I guess it's possible to have larger gains at part throttle. FWIW, my results are 100% throttle. I didn't even consider doing dyno runs at part throttle. Maybe the expert tuners on this board can enlighten me?

I don't mean to piss on any technology, but I don't get this. It doesn't look like a performance gain at all but a shift for some reason. The 100% run looks the exact same, I would need to see at least 5 runs each with and without the FRK before I would make any conclusions about the small differences on those 2 runs, and as far as the 75% goes, all I can say I apply the throttle as needed, and never think about position unless its pegged, all other times, I pour it on as needed, so I don't see the benefit of the supposed "gain" at 75% throttle. Any differing thoughts?

[OwenM]

The air filter was changed out at the same time as the "PowerFRK" was installed, so which is responsible for the change, if a change exists?
If the air filter is like the Unifilter foam unit it will make a difference on its own, so if you where looking to find out what difference the “PowerFRK” makes no other change should have been done between dyno runs.

[zx9rmal]

So, Techlusion or FRK, what's the verdict?

[2wheelmike]

Originally Posted by OwenM

The air filter was changed out at the same time as the "PowerFRK" was installed, so which is responsible for the change, if a change exists?
If the air filter is like the Unifilter foam unit it will make a difference on its own, so if you where looking to find out what difference the “PowerFRK” makes no other change should have been done between dyno runs.

Shreddr's comment about not seeing any difference was (I think) directed at the plot forwarded by PowerFRKUSA. And I totally agree that *my* results which I posted at the beginning don't distinguish the benefit of FRK and air filter separately. I mentioned this in my post and I wish I had the $$ to spend on additional dyno time. But it is, nonetheless, useful information for those that are considering a relatively cheap upgrade to their R12S, regardless of merits of the individual parts. I have separately stated my seat of the pants assessment (http://66.236.61.177/showthread.php?t=387804&page=7) of the FRK alone (well with Akra exhaust) and the improvement IS noticeable. It's my *opinion* that changing the air filter alone would not have produced these same results, since the mixture is quite noticeably enriched. I think others who have installed Techlusion, etc. and have done more extensive dyno testing (or racing) can comment on this better than I can. Everything I've found on this forum about exhaust/air filter upgrades alone suggests it just makes the bike run leaner which exacerbates the flat spots and the less than ideal off/on throttle transition. Techlusion, RapidBike, FRK, or equivalent are needed to improve fueling and other parameters to get the most out of the respective combination.

Maybe I should apologize for posting the R12R results. My reason for posting was that I hadn't even considered dyno'ing at part throttle. If you don't affect the full throttle performance (unlike my case) but do improve part throttle performance, then it does seem that you've just changed the throttle's progressiveness, no? I was hoping that one of the many astute tuners on this board would comment on the merits of part-throttle dyno testing. I'm very happy with my results and maybe it's best to end this thread on that note

[boxercup]

Greetings Mike,

To tune properly we have to make sure that the bike has power all over the RPM range. Not just at 100% Throttle.

Shredders comments notwithstanding, look at the power difference on the 75% throttle run at 6000RPM. WOW!

Or here is a graph for a F800GS RB 3 Application for example:

http://www.rapidbikeusa.com/supportfiles/Foster_F800GS_QDFull_SuperFlow.pdf

0-05-10-20-40-95 % Throttle. Tune For Power!

Here is what that map looks like as represented by the above .pdf:



Here is the map at 100% ONLY! See the difference:



Oy Vey, the 800 would suffer at anything below 90% Throttle.

This is a tech board Mike, you raise a good question... Don't apologize!

Ask more questions, raise more awareness!

Most of all enjoy the ride!

[boxercup]

http://www.rapidbikeusa.com/supportfiles/Foster_R1200GS_Akrapovic-BMC-R-cammes.pdf

Questions?

[shreddr]

Why are we looking at RBIII data? the device in question is something else, and functions in a different way.

[boxercup]

"I was hoping that one of the many astute tuners on this board would comment on the merits of part-throttle dyno testing."

[boxercup]

Originally Posted by 2wheelmike

A couple more questions:

What wire do people use for placing an RPM pick-up? I had to do a little surgery on the spark plug wire loom to get to the coil primary wire to hook up the dyno. The guy running the dyno-jet said he didn't have any references to alternate locations for BMWs.

MOST DYNOS USE CAN USE PRIMARY SIDE OR A SPARK PLUG WIRE

Also, the dyno guy asked if BMWs have an air injection port? Clearly none is obvious, but he said that some bikes implement this inside the head, not in the exhaust headers.

NONE THERE!

Best!

[throttlemeister]

Originally Posted by OwenM

The air filter was changed out at the same time as the "PowerFRK" was installed, so which is responsible for the change, if a change exists?
If the air filter is like the Unifilter foam unit it will make a difference on its own, so if you where looking to find out what difference the “PowerFRK” makes no other change should have been done between dyno runs.

Please show me a filter that flows more air and creates a richer mixture. You can't, cause it ain't happening.

Second a high flow filter by itself will not do very much, unless FI is adjusted to take advantage of the availability of more air. Stock FI is lean, more air will make it worse.

Ergo, conclusion must be there is significant improvement by correction of FI and it is now properly exploiting the advantages of the high flow filter.

It is not exactly rocket science and if you (and shreddr, others) actually stop and think for yourself, instead of following the apparent current hype of FosterRAD bashing you'd get it without actually looking stoopid.

[OwenM]

Maybe the engine tuning theory I leaned 20 years ago is rusty, but as I recall slightly lean mixtures actually produce the most power, more then slightly rich mixtures, so adding extra fuel does not help power unless the mixture was very lean to start with.
Manufacturers are VERY unlikely to use lean mixtures for wide open throttle as it could lead to engine damage due to high combustion temperatures, no way that could be tolerated in a production engine as it would affect reliability.
Foam air filters like the Unifilter are large and occupy a significant area in the air box, they can have an effect on the damping and resonance of the intake system which can in turn affect power output.

[smallj]

Originally Posted by zx9rmal

So, Techlusion or FRK, what's the verdict?

I had my eyes on the FRK for a long time before it came out. When it finally came out, I was put off by the price (but I understand it has come down since then). Folks on the board have had good luck with the Techlusion, and the price was a reasonable $250.

I can't speak for the benefit of the FRK (I'm sure it's good though), but I can say that I am very happy with the Techlusion. My power comes on much smoother now. I seem to have lost some of my engine braking though, and I am a big fan of engine braking. I wonder if it has to do with the Techlusion trying to remove the popping or backfiring during on/off throttle.

One thing I like about the Techclusion is how easy it is to adjust. If I go out tomorrow and buy a full Akra system for the bike, I will be able to adjust fueling for the new system.

I should start a new thread to talk about adjusting the Techlusion... Maybe it will help someone else or the smart folks here will be able to help me.

[boxercup]

Originally Posted by smallj

One thing I like about the Techclusion is how easy it is to adjust. If I go out tomorrow and buy a full Akra system for the bike, I will be able to adjust fueling for the new system.

I should start a new thread to talk about adjusting the Techlusion... Maybe it will help someone else or the smart folks here will be able to help me.

Greetings,

When Lenny Pedersen and and I started this project in 2004 we wanted a Plug and Play device that had NO adjustments and required NO Dyno time to make your bike smooth and powerful at all ranges with no flat spots. Economical, powerful and a quick install!

This is what everyone is missing:

Plug and Play in 15 minutes and you have instant power! No adjustments! It is optimized for your bike and modifications <<>> no expensive dyno time.

The Teclusion is a tuning device and that needs a dyno for tuning. You can screwdriver it all day until it is smooth and has the power you want by the seat of your pants. ....Then put it on a dyno and EGA and see how much more tuning you must do and the limited result you will get. ... You might get an Akra system and performance air filters later but the Teclusion is not able to fuel it optimally even after another dyno!

We try all the FI devices on the market in our Dynolab.

We know what works and we have more in the works that works!!

Small J just follow the included instructions from the Techlusion. That is your best bet!

[EZ-RIDER]

Wow 20 more Hp in the mid range, more usable horsepower where you need it!!

[boxercup]

Originally Posted by EZ-RIDER

Wow 20 more Hp in the mid range, more usable horsepower where you need it!!

Greetings,

Someone understands.

It is about the potential of your engine. It is there. Feed it properly and it comes alive.

__________________________________________________ ___

E-Z, Hi! Where did the teckkies go?

Acidburn, Cliff, Carlos, Paris Hilton, Oh jeez... many!

Roger of course is our rock... And again Rober thanks for all you input. You make this board technical in your appreciated unique style.

__________________________________________________ ____

Drinking With Bob:

http://blip.tv/file/1297682

[shreddr]

Robert, I know this has been asked a few times with nothing from you that actually resembled an answer, please explain how your unit functions. Not the result, but what is the mechanism that allows your "results" to occur.