I Had To Lay It Down: Myth or Real?

[bikerfish1100]

you would not believe the number of times i either hear "I had to lay it down to aviod the crash" - with the perfunctory "so you decided to have an on-purpose instead of an accident" response from me, or the "so when do we learn to lay 'er down in this class? all my friends say that if you're going to ride a bike that you have to know how to do that."

the best one i heard this year was "the guy turned left in front of me, so i had to lay it down to avoid hitting the car. fortunately, the bike stopped sliding before it hit the car." after the class was all over (including learning and practising "Quick Stop Techniques"), this guy agreed with me- he should have just used his brakes.

believe me, unless you get paid to do this (or are named bradz), you are just not good enough to intentionally crash your bike. basically, that person's (anyone who utters those 6 mytical words) braking skills just suck ass. period.

[bikerfish1100]

Originally Posted by boxercup

Greetings,

That is Thomas Luthi a fine pilot! I saw him do well at Assen this year. He has a good career in front of him.

I would expect that recovery from him!

Shabby work by the track team and corner workers though. ;~((!

i trust that someone had the decency to hand him some t.p. after the race was over?

[varmint]

six seven years back i was on highland near the hollywood bowl. going maybe 40, a car made the classic left turn in front of me. i made a desperate evasion, and laid the bike down. i suppose lowsiding was better than going through the windshield. but i don't see how, in a panicked and chaotic split second like that you can make any kind of "decision". it's just what happened.

[twodear]

Yep, everytime I crashed, it involved 'laying it down'.

I have to think though that if the stopping distance is short 'laying it down' is probably acceptable to merely riding straight into the obstacle.

There was this one time though...I was riding an H-D panhead that I'd rescued from a pile of junk to make an assembly of junk. The front brake was a disk and caliper from a Superglide but I'd mounted it to the WLA springer forks and 21 inch rim in such a way that it would cause the fork to hyper extend and cause 'significant' hopping when braking hard. Yes, it was a stupid design, I've learned so much in the succeeding 25 years.

Anyway, on a quiet residential street the predicable thing happened and a youngish girl reversed out from a driveway directly into my path. I was so distracted and involved in trying to stay seated on the pogoing bike that I actually managed to brake well enough to put the front tyre ever so lightly up against the side of her car.

[signit98]

Originally Posted by bradzdotcom

look who's talking.
when was the last time you tossed that behemoth of a TT500 you ride in the dirt?
(or is it the other way around?)

That darn thing throws me 3 times per ride on average... what's worse though is when it stall while doing so... I can deal with the pain of being tossed... but the pain of getting it going again...?

Originally Posted by bradzdotcom

ps: hey, wait a second.....say....aren't you the same guy who did the on-purpose, super slo-motion bike lay down in an algae-infested creek, for all of us to watch and enjoy? twasn't that you ralfie?

I know nothing of that... and Patrick, who came swirling in to keep me company will not verify that either...

[on2wheels52]

I don't hear that phrase a great deal but can remember the first time I heard it. It was 1972, the speaker was talking about his CB750. Not having started riding at that date, it almost made since to me.
Jim

[wswartzwel]

I think it comes from that old childrens book "Lucky Chuck" by Beverly Cleary The story of a young man who got a motorcycle...

[island_dude]

For street riding, I would much prefer to stop the bike with the rubber side down. I guess I can see the possibility of having to try and jump off rather than actually collide with something, but I suspect that would take a real presence of mind. In my world, you roll the dice and take your chances. I'll stick with the bike. As long as it is upright I am going to stop faster that when I am sliding across the pavement.

[plucky]

In my experience, the people who make this statement *often* just don't know how to use the brakes....

With students (BRC) who relate the stories or sage advice of their friends who ride (had to lay it down, front brakes will throw you over the bars, etc) I usually just ask them to forget all advice, keep an open mind and form their own conclusions after the course is over.

[AZ-J]

Have any of you taken a MSF ERC class? They teach rubber wheels have far more friction stop ability than plastic or metal, so NEVER lay it down. Learn how to use brakes more effectively, instead.

[bradzdotcom]

i just noticed that what we're talking about is basically going from vertical to tossed...on purpose...to avoid slamming into something.

what the video of Luthi is portraying, is a rider who's lost traction (because of the quick-dry on the track), and is using his knee and elbow as outriggers to stay up.

i've seen video of colin edwards doing this and asked him about it. he claims the "foot wave*" happens more often than you'd think, and many times what appears to be a knee gracefully sliding along the asphalt is actually a giant knee press in a desperate attempt to stay on board. apparently, the use of knees and elbows as outriggers to keep the bike under you has become the "go-to" desperate move that pans out more often than not.
*(it's called the "foot wave" because the outside leg usually flies up and the foot points outward, waving in the air).

i wouldn't care if they called it "the brad", i don't plan on trying it out.
what i was talking about on the previous page was how to go from vertical to tossing the bike on the ground, not replicating a boat you see on hawaiian postcards.

if you're attempting to do what's portrayed in the video...saving it by using your knee and elbows as outriggers...that's a whole different drawer of skill sets that didn't come with my toolbox. never done it. not even on the list.

i'm all for being "at one with the motorcycle", but that's a push.

[RBMann]

I heard a lot of these stories as a kid, hanging around my step-father and his riding buddies. My step-father's Triumph 650 was set up for drag racing w/o a front brake and the rear brake worked like a light switch. Panic stops sometimes ended poorly. Saying they choose to lay it down was a cover for the their lack of ability or the bike's. No front brake was common among his friends too. Also the bike saved weight by using a headlight off a bicycle powered by two D-cells and it had a 4 inch slick in back. It went like stink but could not stop, go around corners or be driven at night.

I only rode that bike once and it gave me a good scare.

RB

[bikerfish1100]

Originally Posted by RBMann

I heard a lot of these stories as a kid, hanging around my step-father and his riding buddies. My step-father's Triumph 650 was set up for drag racing w/o a front brake and the rear brake worked like a light switch. Panic stops sometimes ended poorly. Saying they choose to lay it down was a cover for the their lack of ability or the bike's. No front brake was common among his friends too. Also the bike saved weight by using a headlight off a bicycle powered by two D-cells and it had a 4 inch slick in back. It went like stink but could not stop, go around corners or be driven at night.

I only rode that bike once and it gave me a good scare.

RB

don't feel too bad. stock Triumphs couldn't really be ridden much at night either. it usually came down to the bike asking- "what do you want old chap, ignition or lights? just understand, you can't have them both."

[Guest24]

I had a get-off on an RT which was witnessed by two Pelicans. Mine was a let go rather than a laydown. I would have preferred to brake all the way; however, once the left jug was on the pavement, there was no need to hang on for the 60 foot ride to the bottom of the ravine. If faced with hitting a vehicle or whatever, I'll max brake until I hit. I don't think plastic sliding on asphalt is going to slow you up very much.

[Rapid Dog]

...yep, layed 'er down and got up on the shiney side and rode it out...that's they way I heard it.

[EenyBear]

Early in my riding experience I had two "off the bike" incidents - one trivial and one rather serious - and I never noticed that I had the time to make a rational decision about whether or not to "lay it down".

In fact, I specifically recall there was barely time to chirp f*** before the accident was already in progress.

I say "in progress" because the second "off the bike" incident involved me flying through the air for 50-60 feet which oddly enough gave me plenty of time to decide how I was going to hit the pavement. I can honestly say that my martial arts and gymnastic training was beneficial. Although my injuries were serious, I was not maimed or left with anything noticeably permanent to show for the experience. Part luck, no doubt, and part hasty preparation.

Here's my favorite recovery:http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa0GmdSN4A

Here's one instance where I can imagine someone "laying it down" - in embarrassed frustration: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq_-42OxZEY

Cheers,
Ian