Street Pictures of S100RR!!!!

[kocook]

Good interview with Hendrik von Kuenheim (GD of BMW Motorrad) in Bike, Feb'09 (if you don't get Bike, you are really missing out). On the S1000RR, Herr Kuenheim states that BMW is after the sportbike rider to bring younger riders into the showroom.

The target market has little brand loyalty and high unit turnover. Their buying decision rests on three factors: peak HP, weight, and race wins. Basically, BMW is building a squid bike for squids. Hey, it works for me!

They first decided on the race venue. WSB. Why? Because MotoGP is all about the rider and WSB is all about the bike ('We don't sell Rossis and Stoners. We sell bikes'). That venue determines 90% of the 'package' (form of the bike). BMW gets to play with less than 10% of that package (the heads?).

He also made it clear that BMW know what they are up against. He is certainly a realist--and he expressed that realism with a very German sense of humor. I have a lot of respect for them and the chances they are taking. I certainly wish them well.

May pick up one of those scooters, too. Could be a lot of fun on the track.

[hawkeyejohn14]

BIKE was dropped when the price was close to $100 for one year. I do think it is the best motorcycle magazine around but $100 or even $86 is not where I want my extra money.

I do think BMW is on with the S1000RR but how many new buyers are they going to reach with out a extensive dealer network.

[Deans BMW]

I think that if the bike shows well in WSB, then we all just might be suprised.

[signit98]

I think the bike WILL show well in WSBK, Dean... I just would not bank on it the first year.

But then, this year - by all accounts - might be a write off for most companies anyway... so if they do well next year, all may be well in the end.

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by signit98

I think the bike WILL show well in WSBK, Dean... I just would not bank on it the first year.

This is just the point! This is why I think the S1000RR will do great this year!

1:st no Bayliss, 2:nd alot of "new" bikes as well as NEW bikes, 3:rd alot of riders changed brand and teams.

This means that it's not only BMW that's "new" to this, and not only Ruben and Troy that are new to their bikes.

And finally BMW seems to really be serious with this!

A lot of other teams (that doesn't sell cars) doesn't have BMW's resourses, and less money is less success.

Maybe wishful thinking, but correct me if my thinking is wrong!

[signit98]

Sorry to burst your bubble, Jonas...

The new teams are the only ones not having any access to reliable historic data of all the tracks they will run on. Sure, some of the other riders have switched to "new" teams... but you are forgetting that these new teams are only new to them... not new to WSBK!

Most of the teams that are running have MORE resources designated to WSBK than BMW has... so, would you still like to apply your equation to it? Don't mix up the Car Arm of BMW with the two-wheeled arm... most of the money goes to F1... they don't care about motorcycles!

Yes, BMW is really serious about WSBK but they can not perform miracles... and that's what it would take to be continuously successful this year.

[mkletecka]

Ah, some more comments from me on the S1000RR. Even if BMW has a bad showing in WSB, it’s not going to kill them, or for that matter turn that many people away from buying one. The saying, win on Sunday, sell on Monday is certainly true, but not to the extent it was years ago. If, people have liked or have always wanted to get a Suzuki, Honda, or Duc they are going to get one regardless of race results (of course unless it blows up/comes in last “ever” race).

Also, typically products of today are aggregately very good/almost equal and becoming harder to say which is best. I.E., a Subaru is as good as an Audi, so why spend the extra money to get the Audi. A Suzuki GSXR/Honda RR is as good/better than a MV/Ducati, so why on earth would anyone spend the extra money to get an MV/Ducati?

In addition, I have the wonderful opportunity of riding on occasion with various test riders for motorcycle mag’s, who more and more are saying/providing reviews that all sport bikes are really very good/almost equal, “based on street riding”. P.S., behind the sceens, they openly say that if one wants to go fast/faster on the streets, get a bike that you are “really” comfortable in riding and using (fatigue factor), that it typically be in the sub 500 LB’s range, with approximately 100 H.P. or more. BTW, on a recent ride, a BMW GS 650 was being tested and throughout the day “it” was in the lead, beating out guys on their 1000cc sport bikes, truly humbling and amazing to see in person. However, for squids, bench racers, posers at the local hangout, it’s all about H.P., looks, WSB participation, therefore I feel BMW has a good chance of being successful with the S1000RR for it will have those basic ingredients.

Over and out.

Mike K.
Dana Point, CA.

[peter f]

Mike

Your analytical thinking is correct...the problem is that SS are not about using them to the max (I can barely imagine a mere mortal fully exploiting a ZX10R or a Blade or a ...). Track/road makes no difference mind, always the bike is toooo much for you/me.

SS they serve as "Image" makers or ego boosting or wanna be Valentino (in another life) and the likes. In that aspect, a racing pedigree...just adds to the pleasure.

That said, of course I want badly that R1000SS (all black - the thing requires a respray) ...for reasons...erm...well...

It could be interesting the battle for braking supremacy: Old school "mechanical" BMW ABS VS the new stunning C-ABS by Honda (available in Blade 09 and the small CBR).

He He

[HugoVW]

Actually the ABS on the 1000RR will have 4 modes and is completely new and BMW says it will set standards so it will probably be as good as the Honda C-ABS...but we have to wait and see off course. One thing is sure, the engine will rev to 14000 in street trim (some say 14500) and therefore will have the highest rpm level of current 1000 sportbikes. Rumour is that the bore x stroke is similar to the Desmosedici...

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by signit98

The new teams are the only ones not having any access to reliable historic data of all the tracks they will run on. Sure, some of the other riders have switched to "new" teams... but you are forgetting that these new teams are only new to them... not new to WSBK!

Aprilia? Surely they don't rely on their old data?

Originally Posted by signit98

Most of the teams that are running have MORE resources designated to WSBK than BMW has... so, would you still like to apply your equation to it? Don't mix up the Car Arm of BMW with the two-wheeled arm... most of the money goes to F1... they don't care about motorcycles!

Yeah, maybe you're right.
I would be interested to see if there's any facts backing this though. Because I do think, due to what is known about BMW and their engineering obsession, the bike section is not excluded from this madness of spending money on enginering things!

Originally Posted by signit98

Yes, BMW is really serious about WSBK but they can not perform miracles... and that's what it would take to be continuously successful this year.

I don't think they will need miracles, it sounds like there's no chance in hell they vill do continously well! I think they got good riders, what seems like a marvelous bike, they do darn good times on their testing and from what I hear some of their opposition does not do as well, Aprilia for instance!

But, let's agree to disagree! ;-) Only time will tell!

[signit98]

Originally Posted by mkletecka

BTW, on a recent ride, a BMW GS 650 was being tested and throughout the day “it” was in the lead, beating out guys on their 1000cc sport bikes, truly humbling and amazing to see in person.

THAT is funny... yeah, on a dirt/gravel roads that's what happens every time... silly sportbike riders to try and follow the bike there!

If it was on the street, it was probably the lead rider in a MSF course... or some REALLY bad riders on the sport bikes.

Get real...

[mkletecka]

Signet:

What I said is true and done on paved roads not gravel (in fact, it was done on a trip to Lake Isabella). Also, the GS 650 had the factory on road/off road tires. In addition, this group of riders were well seasoned with no chicken stripes on their tires. BTW, if you do any riding through the canyons, you may have noticed that "typically" the "fastest" are "great riders" on motards. Yes, I agree that on straights the GS 650, motard or Suzuki SV 650 has no chance, but in the twisties below 110 mph and where one carries corner speed thats a different story.

If, you think I am liar, next time you go riding in the canyons go pick a race with a good rider on one of these underpowered machines and then you will see the light. Again, I am talking about street riding in the real canyons of life, not racing or drag racing down straight aways.

Kind Regards:
Mike K.
Dana Point, CA.

[signit98]

Sorry Mike, you may not be a liar, but diluted none the less... unless there were perpetual twisties on that ride you mentioned - and even then - the GS 650 will not be found leading "throughout" the day. My understanding of "throughout" would be that the GS 650 was in the least on its own merits on any road for most of the day.

If it goes uphill for example, the GS 650 is hopelessly underpowered and - like it or not - power DOES make a difference, all things being equal (and with 1000cc sport bikes in the mix, all things are NOT equal)... above all, I question your judgement and the ability of the "seasoned riders" in question, if it was in fact the case that the GS 650 was leading a group of 1000cc Sport bikes "throughout" the day...

Now, if you would tone it down to "the GS 650 was found leading through some of the twisties" I would have no issues believing that...

Of course, if you want to prove me wrong, we can always meet somewhere at a tight track like the Streets of Willow or, better yet, the Horsethief Mile (more like a real life canyon) and you can bring a GS650 and show me...

But then, what do I know... I usually just snail along at my own pace... anyone is faster than I am.

[peter f]

Originally Posted by HugoVW

Actually the ABS on the 1000RR will have 4 modes and is completely new and BMW says it will set standards so it will probably be as good as the Honda C-ABS...but we have to wait and see off course. One thing is sure, the engine will rev to 14000 in street trim (some say 14500) and therefore will have the highest rpm level of current 1000 sportbikes. Rumour is that the bore x stroke is similar to the Desmosedici...

Hugo

BIKE's spy shots (a very small pic actually) about a 3rd "cam" are justified? Does the thing has some valvetronic gizmo? And if so,,,,erm....classic throttle butterflies are MIA?

[RoLoo]

Originally Posted by HugoVW

BTW there was a story some months ago in Motorrad where a new Boxer engine was shown based on inside information. It had a central camshaft and the valves where actuated via rods (a la Harley The engine was very compact and small in width (just like the old Boxers) and with new materials a high rpm-level is possible...the insider had seen parts at suppliers

...if I remember correctly ; the compact engine was a 800 cc (or something that size)...

[peter f]

Originally Posted by RoLoo

...if I remember correctly ; the compact engine was a 800 cc (or something that size)...

Indeed (and no paralevel - blame bean counters).

[HugoVW]

No mentioning of a "third" cam. The cylinder head is similar in design to the K-series (so with cam followers) but the dimensions of the parts are so small they have almost F1 dimensions.
The bore must be around 80mm..no mentioning of variable camshafts, etc. That is still the "big" secret. There is a picture of the throttlebody which has the servo-motor integrated in it...

[mkletecka]

Signet 97.5
As I already said…. Again, I am talking about street riding in the real canyons of life not racing or drag racing down straight aways.

BTW Signet, this was an x-racer, moto journalist riding and testing the GS 650 and yes I am talking about the twisties only. In addition, riding on the street (single pass) is much different than riding round & round, over and over again on a well groomed TRACK, which you refer too. Also, because the street typically has uncertain road conditions such as gravel, oil, water and blind turns, it only allows one to ride at 7 to 8/10, thus leveling the playing field of 1000cc sport bikes.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Mike K.
Dana Point, CA.

[Dr. Curve]

On the new 1000ccRR..........both the intake cam and the exhaust cam are variable and operated from one end of their respective shafts. In between these, and slightly lower is another cam of sorts that serves as a knuckle carrier for the finger openers that will trip the valves. IT ALSO is a variable degree shaft, featuring a quarter circle small thread gear, controlled by a top mounted, mid-shaft, small electric motor, worm drive shaft attached to the quarter circle gear. This second carrier shaft, when twisted, changes the stop and start points of the overall valve timing parameter. The two primary cams act independently to change their timing in relationship to each other. In this way BMW divides the cam job into two task. One enables the changing of each cam timing in relation to the other one........exhaust to intake. While the other task is handled by the carrier shaft, which enables the changing of primary cam timing as engine needs change. Is this at least half way right? Curious minds need to know. 14,000 RPMs with GOK's how much RWHP! Something must be way up in the rooster wrench camps.

[signit98]

Originally Posted by mkletecka

Signet 97.5
As I already said…. Again, I am talking about street riding in the real canyons of life not racing or drag racing down straight aways.

BTW Signet, this was an x-racer, moto journalist riding and testing the GS 650 and yes I am talking about the twisties only. In addition, riding on the street (single pass) is much different than riding round & round, over and over again on a well groomed TRACK, which you refer too. Also, because the street typically has uncertain road conditions such as gravel, oil, water and blind turns, it only allows one to ride at 7 to 8/10, thus leveling the playing field of 1000cc sport bikes.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Mike K.
Dana Point, CA.

It does, Mike... and all of a sudden it sounds significantly different from your typical pompous and bloated statement in your first post... THROUGHOUT has a different meaning, you might want to look it up in the dictionary!

You don't really need to describe street riding to me, Mike... just learn to express what you REALLY mean, your energies are better focused that way, it seems.