R11s Alignment issues

[RGB2CMYK]

When I take my hands off the bars (throttlemeister) my bike likes to veer to the right rather significantly. Any ideas why? I don't have the cases on or anything so it's not mispacking or anything.

Suggestions? I'm not exactly sure what to troubleshoot.

thx

[flynford]

I've attributed that to the engine torque of the boxer motor. When you blip the throttle at a stop, the bike will want to tilt to the right. If you were on a inline-4 bike like most Japanese bikes, torque is not side, but to the front.

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by RGB2CMYK

When I take my hands off the bars (throttlemeister) my bike likes to veer to the right rather significantly. Any ideas why? I don't have the cases on or anything so it's not mispacking or anything.
Suggestions? I'm not exactly sure what to troubleshoot.
thx

1. Every road has a crown to it for drainage, whether or not you can see it, its there. You take you hands off the bars in every country where we drive on the right side of the road and the bike will veer to the right.
2. The engine rotates in that direction so when you take your hands off the bars, it will further fuel the bike veering to the right.
3. Motorcycles are designed to operated with your hands on the handlebars. When you identify anomalies that are outside the design parameters of the unit, the conditions you may find have nothing to do with the normal operation of the bike. To put it another way, no motorcycle company determines the existence of a handling anomaly by removing the riders hand from the handlebars.

Sensing a theme here? Your observation does not mean you have a problem. Keep your hands on the bars-if the bike goes straight, you have no problem.

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by flynford

I've attributed that to the engine torque of the boxer motor. When you blip the throttle at a stop, the bike will want to tilt to the right. If you were on a inline-4 bike like most Japanese bikes, torque is not side, but to the front.

The leaning torque as the engine accelerates and decelerates (when you blip the throttle) is completely different from a steady-state pull to the side which is unaffected by the engine torque and is instead a weight distribution and wheel alignment problem. Its a common misconception that the engine's torque has something to do with the pull, but this is completely off base.

There is lots and lots of speculation and few hard facts about the pull, whether it is inherent or not in the weight distribution of the bike or perhaps due to BMW's poor mfg tolerances and general misalignment. Some think BMWs have a deliberate wheel misalignment built in which causes the problem, but others think the misalignment is there to compensate for the inherent unequal weight distribution of the bike. Many complain about it. Many say that it is the owner's imagination, crosswind, road crown, or just general whining.

All bikes have asymetric weight distribution and some degree of wheel misalignment. And very few bikes will ride completely neutrally with the rider sitting straight up/down so some pull due to tolerances and asymmetric weight distribution is normal. But obviously a strong pull is not normal and would be bothersome.

My advice is that if you don't notice you have to consciously hold pressure on one bar or the other (on a dead flat road with no crosswind and equal luggage weight distribution) and the problem is only discernible hands off, then just attribute it to normal tolerances and ride on. Otherwise, have your wheel alignment checked out.

- Mark

[RGB2CMYK]

The leaning is while at a constant speed.

At first I wondered whether it was the road crowning/crosswind issue, etc, but it's rather pronounced. I don't take my hands off the bars often, but if I do to say open a vent on my jacket or adjust a strap and I very quickly find myself veering to the right.

I can't remember whether it always did that, I'm thinking not. I got a new rear tire a month an a half ago. I don't remember the problem right after I got the tire, so I'm not sure if that's related.

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by RGB2CMYK

The leaning is while at a constant speed.

At first I wondered whether it was the road crowning/crosswind issue, etc, but it's rather pronounced. I don't take my hands off the bars often, but if I do to say open a vent on my jacket or adjust a strap and I very quickly find myself veering to the right.

I can't remember whether it always did that, I'm thinking not. I got a new rear tire a month an a half ago. I don't remember the problem right after I got the tire, so I'm not sure if that's related.

Different tire, different shape, who knows?
Place two fingers on each bar with sufficient pressure to dampen outside influences such as crown, tire profile, engine rotation, etc.
Bike goes straight,no problem.

[jduke]

Mine doesn't. I can take my hands off and easily keep it going straight by just a little body english (not the English we all wonder why they drink warm beer....). JUST A JOKE!!!
If it bothers you enough, see if GMD has a shop near you: http://gmd-computrack.com/

[AndrewA]

It might be time for a wheel/fork alignment. Has the bike been down? Did it fall in your garage? It really does not take much.

You can gently loosen the top and bottom triple clamps and just eye-ball that everything lines-up. My guess is that if it's pulling that hard, you should be able to see where the forks/bars might be off easily. Stand in front of the bike with the front wheel between your legs and move the bars back and forth. Then stand on your pegs looking over the front wheel to verify your work.

Once your certain that everything lines-up, you should take a quick test drive.

You could do the "string method" to align the wheels, but it sounds as though the issue is with the bars. Also, the string method is not as reliable because of the rear wheel off-set.

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by jduke

Mine doesn't. I can take my hands off and easily keep it going straight by just a little body english

Your bike does otherwise you would not have to compensate with body english.
Every motorcycle, regardless of brand, in the US, will drift/pull/veer to the right to some degree on public streets.
The fact that you compensate proves your bike does drift-they all do when you let go of the bars and do not compensate.

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by AndrewA

It might be time for a wheel/fork alignment. Has the bike been down? Did it fall in your garage? It really does not take much.

You can gently loosen the top and bottom triple clamps and just eye-ball that everything lines-up. My guess is that if it's pulling that hard, you should be able to see where the forks/bars might be off easily. Stand in front of the bike with the front wheel between your legs and move the bars back and forth. Then stand on your pegs looking over the front wheel to verify your work.

Once your certain that everything lines-up, you should take a quick test drive.

You could do the "string method" to align the wheels, but it sounds as though the issue is with the bars. Also, the string method is not as reliable because of the rear wheel off-set.

None of this is bad advice if your bike tipped over or had some other reason to have the front end knocked out of alignment.
Barring any event like that, again, two fingers each hand to dampen the drift and there is no problem. Don't waste time chasing stuff that isn't there-go for a ride!

[blutruck1]

String alignment won't do any good simply because there are no adjustments to be made to the wheel alignment, unless you're a machinist and enjoy pulling the swing arm, rear wheel, and like to make shims. No chain adjusters or any other way to adjust alignment without getting into tweaking/shimming major components.
How worn are your tires? This will cause a pull to one side or the other, especially if the front is worn on one side more than another.
Are you balanced on the bike? Sitting a little to one side or the other will cause the bike to go one way or another.
Are you checking this on a flat road? Freeway will be the best bet.
Do you have other handling problems? Does it wobble? Does it fall in on one side more than the other? Does it head shake? Pogo? Does it have a high speed weave?
Almost all of these problems can be caused by tires, worn or just plain bad. I've had brand new, zero mile, just mounted tires by a major mfg cause my bike (FJ1200 at the time) to weave in corners that it used to handle just fine before the new tires. So, I'd check the tires and pressures.
Also, make sure all the nuts/bolts are tight everywhere.
Unless you have some other handling issue, I'd suggest keeping your hands on the bars.

[pmc847]

There is a built in off set.






I made a spacer for the real wheel to correct offset to "0". Had to get longer bolts too. There is a post on that here somewhere.

[cageyar]

That's great and very innovative of you but when you let go of your bars and do not compensate with your body, your bike will drift to the right on US public roads.
The drift will vary with the road and perhaps the modifications you've made, but roads are simply not level. It is not indicative of a problem.

[RGB2CMYK]

You all got me thinking, could I have screwed it up when moving lowbars to high bars?

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by RGB2CMYK

You all got me thinking, could I have screwed it up when moving lowbars to high bars?

What high bars? Are they built for the bike? Then no.
If you somehow grafted a set of ape hangars on the bike, maybe, but probalby not.

[pmc847]

cageyar,

You are correct about the roads. My modification helped the bike tack truer with only a little body english need to compensate for the road. Took a lot of english before mod.

Philip

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by pmc847

cageyar,

You are correct about the roads. My modification helped the bike tack truer with only a little body english need to compensate for the road. Took a lot of english before mod.

Philip

Thank you for the update. Like I said, your modifcation had an impact but the fact reamins, you had to use body english to get the bike to track straight. I'm not 100% clear why you made the modification, but it worked for whatever your concern was-bikes will pull right to some extent with no hands on the bars.

Motorcycles were designed to be operated with the hands on the bars-that's why there are handlebars. No motorcycle company designs a bike to operate with no hands on the bars. I know. I worked for American Honda for 10 years in engineering and service. I've explained this to many a Gold Wing rider.

[AndrewA]

Originally Posted by RGB2CMYK

You all got me thinking, could I have screwed it up when moving lowbars to high bars?

Firstly, ignore Cageyar.




If you switched to high bars, weather Rapid Dog's or Suburban Machinery's or any other "high bars", there is a very high likelihood that you may have either not lined the bars and forks up correctly, or have mis-torqued the triple clamps.

Which high bars did you install?

[AndrewA]

Originally Posted by blutruck1

String alignment won't do any good simply because there are no adjustments to be made to the wheel alignment, unless you're a machinist and enjoy pulling the swing arm, rear wheel, and like to make shims. No chain adjusters or any other way to adjust alignment without getting into tweaking/shimming major components.

Not entirely true, but kind of.

Once the front and rear wheel are lined up as well as possible, the string test can be an important validation tool.

Simply, if the wheels are line up in parallel (which includes the offset), and the bars are crooked, you can pretty easily determine if you have a problem and go back to make appropriate adjustments.

It is just another tool.

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by AndrewA

Firstly, ignore Cageyar.

Wow, at least you presented all the facts.
I'll bet your bike pulls to right.
By the way, the Red Sox suck. Have a nice day in the Commiewealth of Mass.