Noob Questions... (please be gentle)

[jaytee]

Ok, new to me R1200S with lots of extras... Some history: I owned and loved a R1200ST for 25,000 miles and was looking for a sportier version of my bike with a little more power and a little less weight. So far mission accomplished. But now that I have some miles on her I have some quesitons if y'all don't mind.

1. Engine is a bit snarlier (there is a full remus racing ti exhaust on it) and noticeably more vibration ~3500-4000 than the ST. Normal?
2. There is some kind of adjustable paralever top link that is 3/8" longer than stock. From what I could read in search this is designed to help make for quicker turn in but I notice the top of the boot is a lot more stretched. Does this driveline angle change have any implications for final drive longevity?
3. At 6" 34" inseam my knees keep resting on the various tubes and wires on top of the intakes. Normal? Any long-term issues here?
4. The seat is stupid uncomfortable (compared to my cushy custom corbin on the ST) and so is the standard corbin I've tried. Any other options for someone who likes to sit right on the tank or is antoher trip to Hollister in my future?
5. The original owner put most of the performance mods on - how would I be able to tell if the bike was chipped/tuned whatever? sprockets?
6. Low speed part throttle is just a hair unstable and hunts a bit - not really that big of a deal but do I need to worry about over-lean conditions and should I install the race FRK that the previous owner had but never put on?
7. First tank of gas I got an amazing 41mpg... is this typical or did I just get lucky?
8. The Ohlins spring numbers on the bike are F: 0018-65/62 L266 R: 01902-69/170 L266 -- are these stock springs?
9. How does one get the back end off the ground to start measuring sag? I'd like to get preload in the neighborhood but I'm at a loss on how to go about it.
10. When setting rear rebound damping the owner's manual says to turn counter-clockwise to increase damping: is that looking at the shock from the bottom or looking from the top?

So far the bike is easy to ride, looks fantastic and is filling the bill for a lighter, faster, sportier version of my ST. Can't wait to get the suspension dailed in and the seat figured out.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

TIA,

JT

[cageyar]

Jeez, that's a lot of freakin' questions.

1. That's a pretty narrow band of vibration-500 rpm. I declare it normal and advise holding the throttle wide open longer to blast through that range.

2. If you are referring to the torque link above the swingarm, yes, longer is better within reason. My Rizoma link extended the length 5MM. 3/8", if that's accurate is a little longer. The extra length raises the rear ride height while at the same time steepening the front fork angle-both good. With the rear Ohlins, you can also extend the rear shock length to further raise rear ride height.

3. I'm 6'3" tall with a 34" inseam and my legs are not touching those items. Scooch forward or splay your knees a little-you'll be fine-it will permit you to shift your position a little easier for cornering.

4. Corbin makes a seat and Sargent will re-foam/cover the stock base, if you need it.

5. There are no "chips" for the R12S. If it has the "sprockets", you should be able to tell by their appearance-they are more exactly machined with squarer tooth edges than the stamped, factory sprockets. Post a picture and then we'll tell you how to remove them-they're useless.

6. If there is no Techlusion type adjustable fuel module, usually located under the seat, chances are you should install the FRK spoofer or whatever the hell it is-I have one with my Akra full system, K&N, etc. and the throttle response is perfect.

7. I never measure fuel mileage and couldn't give a $hit less.

8. Those are the stock springs.

9. R12S Ohlins settings

10. ohlins manual - Google Search

Anything else.................................... ..............................

[LeftCoast Peter]

atta boy cageyar.

[cageyar]

What? I answered his questions and turned him onto some good threads/information. You back into the room in NJ with this please be gentle stuff and you're bound to get a little pummeled. I think I was gentle, for back East anyway.

[jduke]

There's hope for you yet.

[jaytee]

Originally Posted by cageyar

Anything else.................................... ..............................

Well... since you are offering!

cageyar - that's the gentlest treatment this Texas boy (born there, transplanted to left-coast) has ever received from a joizey boy!

Thanks!

A couple of followups for you or whoever is available:

1. I read the Ohlin's manual but still can't figure out what "clockwise" is on a side-mounted wheel??? If I am sitting on my ass in the garage (on the left side of bike) looking at that lower rebound damping wheel, is left clockwise or right clockwise???
2. Ok, I read the suspension setting threads and I think I have a decent grasp on how to set up the suspension once I figure out what direction "clockwise" is. But I still don't know how to get a good feeling on where the sag is. I know I have to unload the rear suspension (a couple of big guys lifting???) - is there a shortcut? Like measureing the spring height with the bike on the side stand?
3. Ok - on to the torque link... The unit I have looks like reddish-black annodized aluminum with an adjuster bolt with two nuts (variable length?) toward the front. What are the negative handling effects with continuing to jack up the rear and steepening the steering head angle? Lack of control under braking? Any problems with the more radical final drive angle over time?
4. No sign of fueling modules under the seat so I'll install the FRK spoofer thingy as per the jilllion threads on it. Not completely clear how to check for sprockets... I've seen a number of threads talking about the effect of the sprockets but I'm still waiting on a service manual (motorbookstore out at the moment) and am not clear what all to take off to get a picture to post.


Thanks again!

JT

[cageyar]

1. If you are sitting on the left side of the bike and reaching in to adjust the lower rebound damping adjuster, turning toward you would be counter-clockwise-turning all the way until it stops toward you would full soft on rebound-conversely turned all the way clockwise or away from you would be full hard on rebound.

2. When you are setting sag, precision is the key-shortcut the process and you are just wasting your time. To measure unloaded length you just need to measure from a known fixed point on the wheel to a known fixed point on the body/chassis. I use a piece of black electrical tape on the body and use axle centers for the wheel point. Then all your loaded/bike weight/unloaded measurements are taken using the same reference points. An automotive scissor jack and a block of wood will alternately unload each end depending on which end your helper is pushing down.

3. I have 5MM longer on the torque arm, 1/2 " longer on the rear Ohlins, a talller 190/55 rear tire so my bike is a fair bit taller than stock. Post a picture of your link from the right side and maybe your inquiry will be clearer. I doubt you are "over " extended but I'm not familiar with your link.

4. Just put the FRK in-if you have a nice power punch at 5500-6000 RPM, I doubt you have the "sprockets". But your coming manual will show how to expose them for viweing. that's a low priority consideration, IMO.

[jaytee]

ok some pics....

First this is the torque link on the bike. It does not look to me like the rear ohlins has had the shock height raised at all but I will include a picture of that as well.



Next, the picture of the bottom of the shock as seen from the left side of the bike. Sorry I am so dumb - but am I increasing rebound damping turning this knob to the left or right as you face the edge of the knob??



As I mentioned above it doesn't look to me like the shock height has been adjusted at all but I'm not sure if a little goes a long way.

TIA JT

[cageyar]

We've seen that link before but I don't remember the brand-it was on that HP2S that somebody in the Mid-West was recently trying to sell.
Somebody just needs to do a center-to-center measurement on the stock arm.
I'm at work now and can't do it for a couple of hours. You should adjust that one 5-6MM longer than stock. The FD bellows is not unusually extended.
The shock adjuster is at full short-I've got 6 threads showing-I think shreddr has a few more.

[Guest24]

Your torque arm looks to be at full short, which on the R12S would lower the bike in the rear. The Ohlins is at the factory shipped setting which is as short as it will go.

[jaytee]

Originally Posted by Nail24

Your torque arm looks to be at full short, which on the R12S would lower the bike in the rear. The Ohlins is at the factory shipped setting which is as short as it will go.

The torque arm has a couple threads left that could make it a tad shorter, but even so from center-hole to center-hole it measures a full 3/8" longer than the stock arm (which I have off the bike). It's my understanding that this raises the bike? I get that it changes steering head angle but are there any other theoretical ramifications where the handling is concerned with the change in paralever geometery?

Thanks again,

JT

[Bob Hancock]

JT....don't get all wrapped up with which way to turn the adjuster knobs on the shocks. It's a standard right hand thread whether you are standing on your head or not. Just turn it to the right to get more and the left to get less. Rightie-tightie, leftie-loosie. This applies when raising the ride height, or adjusting pre-load or damping. Way more simpler than you suppose.

[cageyar]

The stock torque arm looks to be 378MM center-to-center by hand held tape measure with the torque arm in my hand-add 5MM to that length for your adjustable arm and you'll be good to go.

[jaytee]

Originally Posted by cageyar

The stock torque arm looks to be 378MM center-to-center by hand held tape measure with the torque arm in my hand-add 5MM to that length for your adjustable arm and you'll be good to go.

Ok, I am getting 15 3/32" on a careful measure which translates to 383.4mm. This seems close enough to +5mm that I'm going to leave it alone.

On to shock height... currently the shock is sitting at the bottom. Considering that I already have inputted some increase in stock height with the paralever geometry change, is there any pressing reason to add height here?

Thanks again,

JT

[Bob Hancock]

Time to just ride it some, JT. If it feels any amount of truckie as you turn-in, then you might want to add ride height. The fine tuning is done as a result of time on the road.

[shreddr]

make sure you get the sag set up correctly.

R12S Ohlins settings

[peter f]

Originally Posted by jaytee

and should I install the race FRK that the previous owner had but never put on?

FRK and other similar stuff (in the spoof class of things) tell lies to BMS-K (by interpolating the IAT signal) and thus the ECU thinks that is cold out there > more dense air > more fuel > more CO instead of CO2 creation (thus "cooler" engine). Obviously all these "wonder" things (and real or virtual ponies) depend upon how BMS-K is programmed with regard IAT input (i.e. what values are altered from the base map(s)?) but I guess that nobody knows a thing or two about these Bosch sourced Scientific Top Secret things.

Never show some graphs (especially at partial TPS openings) that could convince me to do it....but a lot of owners are happy with these things by reporting better (or "better") power delivery.

The other way - say 120 to 140 bhp (prepare to spend some money) is to install a serial ECU (RB3 and/or PC5) but only:

(a) if you can find a gifted tuner (pay him AFTER the wonder things are shown in dyno)

(b) if you have some latest BMS-K build (NOT the 9.x) you must resolve that little matter with L-eliminators (or L-modulators or L-whatever) that ....supposedly...er...allow these serial ECUs to work, I mean in the close loop mode that happens in 90% of real-life/real-roads/real-people cases. That said the 9.2 is compatible with plain L-eliminators (things that send a constant value of 1) according to various tuners and that Guru Frank (Fralind).

My experience? If you have latest BMS-K > go for L-modulators (case Rapidbike).

More on that confusing matter and/or L-something and/or the adaption table (and other mysteries of Life not to mention fine Russian Pepper Vodka) here:

Some "secrets" about Beemer injection

Odd RapidBike map(s)

Be the force with you (the dark option)

[bpr65]

Hey Jaytee -

I have the same torque arm, it's an Evoluzione. You change the length by adding or removing shims. PM me with your email and I will send you the PDF instruction sheet.

Also, not sure where in So Cal you are located but if you are close to LA/ Orange County, Randy Acevedo (In House Suspension) charges $40 for a sag and clicker set up. He rebuilt my shocks and changed the springs for track/ spirited canyon riding. His number is 951-751-4198.

For fueling, I would suggest getting a dyno run before you start adding any modules. Lots of great dyno tuners around, let me know if you need some names and numbers. I use Mickey Cohen / Mickey Cohen Motorsports in Anaheim.

[jaytee]

Thanks all...

Shreddr,
I have set up the sag in the rear at 1 9/16" (33%) and did not touch the front which was set at 1 3/8" (~33%). My riding will be spirited local SoCal mountains and canyons along with 1-2 days a week 50mil super-slab commute with a computer. I am looking for a firm, not jarring ride set up to be sporty with just me and a touch more forgiving with 25lbs of computer and files on the back seat.

Since I am 175lbs in clothes, I figure with riding gear I am very close to the 185lbs the factory standard settings are so I started at facotry standard for front rebound and rear rebound and compression damping.

I finally got a chance to ride the bike on some curves this weekend (Ortega Highway both ways) one way by myself and coming back with my 60lb son on the back. Solo the suspension felt pretty good although I felt it was a touch jarring over freeway plates and slightly unsettled with faster side to side transitions - especially if accompanied by a line change or a throttle change mid-turn. I haven't played with it yet but I am guessing it needs more rebound damping. With my son on the back the rebound damping was obviously insufficient and I got some rear end wallowing in turns. I'm not sure what compression damping should/would accomplish since I have never had it on a bike so it's staying stock untill I learn more.

peter f,
You are WAY WAY above my head. I have been told by a few people who are decently versed in the S engine that a K&N with a full exhaust (no cat) can cause an overlean condition and that I sohuld consider some kind of richening to protect my engine long term. I am not a particular fan of the FRK from a theoretical POV but the previous owner had a race version new in a box that he had never installed that came with the bike. I have installed it with the hopes that it will add something toward's richening the engine and protecting the bike. My initial impressions are that the bike back-fires less and less viloently but seems to hunt more ~3000-3200rpm in higher gears. Power is not affected so far as I can tell - but my ButtDyno is notoriously inaccurate.

bpr65,
The torque arm I have looks like you could just detatch the forward eye and unlock the locking mut, spinning the foward eye a few threads for extra length. There are no shims in it (although certainly one could add them). It seems around 5mm longer than the stock arm (which I have).

I will send you a PM post haste.

I currently live in Riverside and have an office in Fullerton so LA OC RIV are all very doable for me. $40 sounds reasonable to get a pro suspension tuner's take on where my bike should be so I may look Randy up.

I wouldn't mind getting a true tune with the idea that I want the engine to last a long time with me flogging it a bit but economic times being what they are I'm not sure the cost is in the cards yet. I'd love to pick their brains a bit and make future plans though so thanks for the offer.

BTW, as a seasonal worker I often have mid-week riding days available to me - any chance you are likewise?

Thanks again to all who responded,

JT

[peter f]

Originally Posted by jaytee

peter f,
You are WAY WAY above my head. I have been told by a few people who are decently versed in the S engine that a K&N with a full exhaust (no cat) can cause an overlean condition and that I sohuld consider some kind of richening to protect my engine long term. I am not a particular fan of the FRK from a theoretical POV but the previous owner had a race version new in a box that he had never installed that came with the bike. I have installed it with the hopes that it will add something toward's richening the engine and protecting the bike. My initial impressions are that the bike back-fires less and less viloently but seems to hunt more ~3000-3200rpm in higher gears. Power is not affected so far as I can tell - but my ButtDyno is notoriously inaccurate.

To tell you the truth for me the very first reason to use aftermarket serial ECUs is that lean mixture little matter (especially in a lean engine by design as is this case). Have no idea what amount of "safety factor" could offer the spoof devices (meaning that I have no idea what type of rich mixture can provide the BMS-K if fooled from the IAT sensor).

But the "hidden" benefit for using a successful serial ECU installation is the BIG differences at partial throttle openings - WOT charts/graphs/claims are the art of pointless.

If you are after challenges...well...you know what to do.

best, peter