Which model year 987 to get -- another IMS related post

[fronesis47]

I posted this over in the 987 forum on rennlist, but that forum seems very dead - so I thought I'd try my luck over here.

I'm trying to decide which Boxster to buy, taking in consideration of the IMS issue. Having done a TON of reading on the IMS, and I've pretty much decided that if I get a 986 I should just factor in the cost to upgrade the IMS. But I'm wondering about what to do if I get a 987.

Should I focus on MY 05 so that I can still do the IMS upgrade?

Or should I get a MY 06 (non-upgradeable) and assume that the bigger bearing means I needn't worry?

Bottom line: if you were buying a 987, would you get the older upgradeable bearing car, or the newer, but not-upgradeable one?

NB: I can't afford an 09!

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by fronesis47

I posted this over in the 987 forum on rennlist, but that forum seems very dead - so I thought I'd try my luck over here.

I'm trying to decide which Boxster to buy, taking in consideration of the IMS issue. Having done a TON of reading on the IMS, and I've pretty much decided that if I get a 986 I should just factor in the cost to upgrade the IMS. But I'm wondering about what to do if I get a 987.

Should I focus on MY 05 so that I can still do the IMS upgrade?

Or should I get a MY 06 (non-upgradeable) and assume that the bigger bearing means I needn't worry?

Bottom line: if you were buying a 987, would you get the older upgradeable bearing car, or the newer, but not-upgradeable one?

NB: I can't afford an 09!

I know your dilemma. I was in the same boat once and decided to get the 986 anyway and spend the extra money on mods. Having said that, almost every other year there have been some kind of improvement made to the IMS, I would stay far away from the 05 as that was a transition year and you don't know what you get. the 07 and 08 were the best of the 987 as were the 03 and 04 for the 986. The 06 I haven't heard much of in terms of IMS issues but I think they are OK

[mikefocke]

I'll disagree with Harry. Looking at the list of changes made between 2004 and 2005 below, I find them significant. They don't include what were essentially styling changes. Engine changes were minimal. So to me (and I owned 2 986s and they are great cars) the more desirable car would be the 2005 assuming you will do the IMS and assuming you can't afford to or don't want to spend the money for the 2009 and later IMS-less models. The IMS can be done on the 2006-2008 models but the trouble finding someone who can do it and paying for it are just too big IMHO. Plus if you are into the engine that deep, the temptation is to just keep improving while you are there and you can get into 2009 total-price territory quite easily.


From my list of model year changes

2005 Base (almost totally new model)

2.7Litre 240 HP

5 speed manual transmission, Tiptronic optional

Variable ratio power steering

Stiffer chassis, wider wheel alignment

Bigger brakes

Head airbags

PSM standard

17” wheels standard (18”, 19” optional)

Improved headlights

More cockpit room

Better positioned roll bars



2005 S model

3.2Litre 280 HP

New 6 speed manual transmission, Tiptronic 5 speed optional

Bigger brakes even than prior S models (Ceramic brakes CBBS option)

PSM Standard (PASM active suspension optional)

18” wheels standard, 19” optional

Sports chrono package option

I'd also go to places where reviews are entered in detail and look for comparisons. Every time I've driven a 987 I've been impressed.

[fronesis47]

Thanks to both of you for the replies.

I think Harry's point wasn't that the 987 wasn't a huge "upgrade" over the 986. I took him to be saying to avoid the 2005 because it was the first year of the 987.

If I avoid the MY 05 987 then I am only looking at 987's that have the larger bearing and therefore are potentially less prone to IMS failure but are also NOT IMS upgradeable.

As I say, I have not yet decided whether I prefer the driving characteristics of the older 986 or if I like the 987 (driving this afternoon). If I get a 986 I simply WILL plan to upgrade the IMS. But obviously if I got an 06 or 07 987 then upgrading the IMS will not be an option.

I wish we knew more how reliable those 06-08 987's are in terms of the IMS issue. Some folks say that the fundamental bearing design has not really changed and therefore it WILL still fail. Others say the larger bearing means the chances of failure are very small.

Overall, for peace of mind, it's hard not to prefer a car with the upgraded bearing or a car without the IMS at all. The problem for me is that I am just NOT finding good prices on 03-04 986 S cars. I just don't want to spend $18K to $25K on a 986 S when I can get a 2007 base 987 for $25K. And I just don't have the money for an 09...

[mikefocke]

I know the popular wisdom is avoid the first year of a model, but I don't recall any great rush of specific to 2005 MY reports of problems.

Given the choice between all the models, the sweet spots to me are '00-'01 S models and the '05S.

[racer]

Life is a crap shoot. I also think the internet hysteria has overblown the issue. That said, it seems you know what the risks are. Would you consider spending money on an aftermarket warranty? Would you rather "self insure"?

The cars themselves (986 vs 987) seem very different to me, in both looks and feel. If you prefer the softer lines of the 986, go for it. If you prefer the larger 987 and its more cohesive (imho) interior, then go for it.

[fronesis47]

I agree that there's risk in any used car and that the IMS issue is surely magnified on the internet. On the other hand, I feel like the LNS upgrade is far less likely to fail and it's good insurance.

I drove a 2010 base 987 today. I have to say: it wasn't nearly as much fun as the 02 986 S I drove last week. The interior was comfortable and I liked the extra head room, but the 2.9L just didn't rev as freely as the 3.2L and there wasn't nearly as much torque down low. The 987 is definitely a very comfortable and livable car, but I don't think I'd be satisfied with the base and I'm not sure I want to spend the money on a 987 S. I guess I need to still drive a 987 S to really know for sure.

But if I could find an early S for a reasonable price, I'd jump on it. Just haven't liked the prices I've seen. For the price to get a good clean 986 S I could spend just $2K more and get a 987 base or add another $4K on to that for a 987 S....

Too many choices...

[techweenie]

I was told by a Porsche master tech at a dealership that there was an IMS bearing change made in mid-05 on the 987s. This may be to the "bigger" bearing mentioned above. It factored into my decision to buy a used, high-mile mid-year 06.

[MikenOH]

If you follow some of the chatter from LN engineering, they've posted that some 05 987's have had the larger bearing when they've attempted to do the change out. IIRC, the design change was supposed to be implemented in October 05, but it sounds like you won't know which one you have until you drop the tranny/clutch and can eyeball the OD of the bearing shaft--OR--if you get a very early 05.

What that says to me is that buying an 05 because it may have the smaller IMS bearing could be a crapshoot. FWIW, I know of 2 PCA instructors with 05 S's --each with over 100k and many DE's on them--still going strong on the original motor and IMS bearing.

Best of luck with it.

[JFP in PA]

Trying to guess which 05’s had the non serviceable IMS bearing has turned out to be a total crapshoot; we have seen very early production month cars with the big bearing, and year-end cars with the removable style. The only real way to know is to pull it apart and look, which is out of the question on a used car buy unless you are really will to jump for a “deep pockets” PPI……….

And for those that have the notion that the “final solution” big IMS bearing is bullet proof, you are wrong, they die just like all the other ones Porsche tried.

[fronesis47]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

And for those that have the notion that the “final solution” big IMS bearing is bullet proof, you are wrong, they die just like all the other ones Porsche tried.

This is what worries me. If this is the case, then the only "safe" option is to by a 986 or a MY 09 or later 987.

As I said at the beginning, the 09 and newer cars are not in my budget. So this puts me back to looking for a 2000-2004 S, and don't come cheap. (In comparison to 05 and 06 987 cars, which can now be had for as little as $20K.)

[JFP in PA]

There are a lot of nice early 986's about; we just had one on the lift for a PPI, a 2001 S in Rainforest Green metalic, black top, and Savannah Beige leather that is a one owner with less than 12,000 miles on it. Not a mark on the car anywhere. While this one just sold, it is an example of what is running around out there............

[dmairspotter]

For me the big issue was not IMS but cockpit room. I flat out do not fit in a 987. I fit in a 986 because I did the console delete, which is not possible in the 987.

If you fit in both, you still might want to look at an 04 to be sure you get the upgradeable bearing. Or save your pennies for a later model non-IMS engine.

[dmairspotter]

BTW I got my 03S with 20k for 21k$, and I might have paid over market. They are out there.

[linklaw]

I bought my 2001 S with 24K miles for $17K last October. Do not be afraid to lowball the seller a little bit.

[feelyx]

Originally Posted by fronesis47

This is what worries me. If this is the case, then the only "safe" option is to by a 986 or a MY 09 or later 987.

As I said at the beginning, the 09 and newer cars are not in my budget. So this puts me back to looking for a 2000-2004 S, and don't come cheap. (In comparison to 05 and 06 987 cars, which can now be had for as little as $20K.)

Ok, why don't you buy one that you think the IMS needs replacing, and replace it? That way you will feel secure in knowing that it has been done and done right?
There are several S'es out there below 12,000$ for the taking......... cough, cough, cough,....... 2002 Boxster S 11,500$ - 986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster Owners and Others

[MnW's 987S]

I specifically looked for an 06 or later so that I knew I would have the most improved IMS bearing. From what I understand the chances of a IMS problem with 06-08 cars is nearly nil. The 06 is a 3.2L vs. the 07-08 being a 3.4L. While I would have rather had the little bit of extra power the 3.4L offers (295 vs. 280) I understand that the cylinder walls of the 3.4L are rather thin so the 3.2L is supposedly the most rugged one of the bunch. Ours now has 58K on it and runs like a raped ape and uses virtually no oil. Consider me very pleased.

We paid $29,500 for it a year ago. At the time it had 47K on it and is very well optioned including power seats and had full dealer only service history.

The interior of the 987 to me is much more comfortable than the 986.

[fronesis47]

Originally Posted by feelyx

Ok, why don't you buy one that you think the IMS needs replacing, and replace it? That way you will feel secure in knowing that it has been done and done right?
There are several S'es out there below 12,000$ for the taking......... cough, cough, cough,....... 2002 Boxster S 11,500$ - 986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster Owners and Others

Yep, you're on the opposite coast or I would have already talked to you about your car. There is nothing like that available out here right now. I'm heading to the west coast in March so if you're car is still around in a few more weeks, perhaps we should talk.

[feelyx]

Originally Posted by fronesis47

Yep, you're on the opposite coast or I would have already talked to you about your car. There is nothing like that available out here right now. I'm heading to the west coast in March so if you're car is still around in a few more weeks, perhaps we should talk.

I've found a couple S'es at this price out here, I have seen a couple bases under 6k also..
Might wanna shop out here and drive back..

this S is listed as a base...
WOW!! 2000 PORSCHE BOXSTER !! GREAT DEAL!! ** EASY FINANCING**

another S less than 12k..
2001 Porsche Boxster S

[fronesis47]

Originally Posted by feelyx

I've found a couple S'es at this price out here, I seen a couple bases under 6k also..
Might wanna shop out here and drive back..

this S is listed as a base...
WOW!! 2000 PORSCHE BOXSTER !! GREAT DEAL!! ** EASY FINANCING**

another S less than 12k..
2001 Porsche Boxster S

You make a compelling case!