Mini as a Cayman replacement????

[jjflash]

Hi,

I've always been a Porsche guy and have owned close to 20 944 variants (mostly 951's/S2's) over the years. Also had a Boxster S (briefly) and a 928 S4. I currently have an '89 944 which is my daily driver and a 2007 base Cayman with 28K miles that I bought from a friend about 6 months ago. I really like the Cayman (what's not to like?) but I've kind of gotten myself into the same situation I was in when I had the 928 S4--which was a gorgeous garage queen, but an entirely impractical car for actual use.

I would like to get back to my original goal, which was to sell the 928 and 944 and get something that I could use as my only car. The Cayman is much more practical than the 928, but still falls short of ticking all the boxes on my wishlist. I live in New Mexico and like to hike and bike. The 944 is handy in the sense that I can easily transport a single bike in the rear hatch area by removing the front wheel. The Cayman would require installing a rear rack or a roof-mounted rack to carry a bike. I don't care for either of those options on that car AND I'm quite reluctant to take a car that nice and leave it at a trailhead or strange parking lot for hours at a time. We also have a winter season here, which is pretty mild, but still makes for some nasty driving conditions--so the Cayman sits in the garage in those conditions.

I started off looking at cheaper, older pickups and SUV's and resign myself to having a 3rd car--maybe a Rav4 or CR-V with 4wd for the nasty days and ability to get to more remote trails. But after test driving a few of them I realize that I'm really addicted to the feel of a Porsche/sports car. I guess "There Is No Substitute," has an element of truth in it.

A couple of months back, while out on a bike ride, I noticed a very nice-looking MINI parked at a trailhead. It looked very tricked out--lowered, aggressive stance and had a very nice bike rack attached at the rear. It was also, IIRC, a 4-wheel drive model, so I guess that means it was one of the larger, newer models. That got me thinking that I DO have the option to sell the Cayman and purchase something that was better suited to my current needs, but would not leave regretting not having that sports car feel that I really enjoy. I actually look forward to driving either the 944 (set up with Koni's, swaybars, etc.) or the Cayman! So yesterday I went down to the local MINI dealer and test drove some of the current models while getting some info from one of the sales guys. Having never driven a MINI before I wanted to find out if there was any possibility that I would be happy with one as a driver.

We drove a new MINI Cooper S and a Clubman or Countryman (???) I got confused about the differences. The one we drove was bigger than the S, but smaller than the biggest one. I did enjoy the S. It had enough zip for me--more than the 944 and probably close the the base Cayman. It did not handle (IMHO) as well as either of the Porsches, especially the Cayman, which I find to be just a treat to toss around--razor sharp! The larger model was DEFINITELY a step down from the S, but still not awful. Neither of these were JCW models, which I assume would tweak the handling up some. And there may be other MINI tuner companies where one could up the handling some.

Either of the MINI's could accept a hitch for a rear bike rack which is good. It looked like there MIGHT be a possibility of getting a bike into the back of the MINI's (especially the larger one) if one so desired.

After getting home, I started looking up MINI resources and ran across a MINI owners' forums and just a bit of reading made it seem pretty clear that there have been problems with MINI's in the past (just like Porsches!) so I thought I'd do well to consult the experts before doing any kind of a deep dive into the subject. My overall budget is probably $20-25K, but I'd prefer to spend about 1/2 that. I'm not going to get a new car--I've never bought a new car in my life because I can't stand the depreciation hit and I'm a cheapskate, I guess. I would consider a certified car if there were one that met my needs/budget. Or just buy used from a private seller. But I need to know a bit about the various earlier models. What years/models to avoid? Stuff like that.

Sorry for rattling on, but I hope to get some good info on whether and how to pursue a MINI search. Or, if anyone has suggestions about an alternative, I'm all ears on that too.

TIA!

STP

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The current MINIs are a completely new design. There may be some models that are a holdover from the previous generation, but I think they're just about all changed over by now. So a used MINI will almost certainly be different from what you drove.

OK, a few generalisms:
- 1st gen MINIs went from 2002 up through 2006. (But the convertibles did not change over until 2009, I think.)
- 2nd gen MINIs ran from 2007 up though the 2014 or 2015 model year.
- 3rd gen is the current version of the MINI.

Each generation has gotten larger, heavier, and softer. The 1st-gen were known for "go-kart" handling.

All generations had the base Cooper, the Cooper S, and either the John Cooper Works edition or the JCW trim level. In the first two generations, the Cooper was naturally-aspirated. The S and JCW were supercharged in the 1st-gen, and turbocharged in the 2nd-gen. (They're all turbo'ed in the 3rd-gen.) The suspensions were tuned differently in the three trim levels, and in addition there was a Sports Suspension option which provided a stiffer setup.

There were a number of body styles, each of which could be had in base, S, or JCW form. In the 1st gen, you could get the Hardtop (the regular hatchback) or the Convertible. Not sure if there were any others.

The 2nd-gen had the Hardtop, the Convertible, the Clubman (slightly larger, half-size "suicide" door on passenger side, split side-opening rear doors instead of lifting hatchback), the Coupe (two seater with an odd roofline), the Roadster (two-seater convertible), the Countryman (rather larger four-door), and the Paceman (two-door version of the Countryman).

The only AWD models until recently were the 2nd-gen Countryman All4, which was an S with an AWD transmission, and similarly the Paceman All4, which was also an S.

Avoid the early 1st-gen CVT-transmission cars. The CVT is problematic and very expensive to fix when it fails. The first ~3 years of the 2nd gen turbo cars have a relatively high number of problems, as well. There have been safety recalls, and now there is a "service action" to replace the timing chain assembly--but the new parts aren't perfect, either. The direct-injection setup is prone to carbon buildup in the intakes, which can also cause problems. There was an engine change for the 2010 model year, and that seems to have slightly fewer problems.

That said, there are a whole lot of people out there who love their 2nd-gen Cooper S or JCW cars!

I'm not a fan of AWD. I grew up in the Midwest, where s--tty weather is an annual thing, and we never needed AWD. Just decent tires, and having a clue how to drive in the snow, were more than good enough. (Too many people think AWD is a "get out of physics free" card--and it isn't!) It also seemed to me like the Countryman All4 (automatic trans) loaner I drove wasn't really any faster than my Cooper hardtop with a manual.

If you like sharp handling, I would recommend checking out a 1st-gen Cooper S. Try one from about 2005 or 2006. Evidently the supercharger whine is addictive, and the handling is very sharp for a FWD car. They have issues with mushrooming strut towers, but those can usually be corrected without heroic measures. It won't be as comfortable as what you drove, though.

The usual advice for improving the handling of pretty much any MINI involves adding a good set of shocks and a larger rear sway bar. (H-sport is a popular brand for the latter.) Supposedly the shocks on the MINIs aren't the best, though I have no complaints with the ones on my Cooper with the sport suspension option. And most FWD cars can benefit from a larger rear sway bar anyway, since almost everyone sets up the car to understeer at the limit.

Anyway, I hope that this gives you a little insight into the MINI world.

--DD

[jjflash]

Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts

If you like sharp handling, I would recommend checking out a 1st-gen Cooper S. Try one from about 2005 or 2006. Evidently the supercharger whine is addictive, and the handling is very sharp for a FWD car. They have issues with mushrooming strut towers, but those can usually be corrected without heroic measures. It won't be as comfortable as what you drove, though.

The usual advice for improving the handling of pretty much any MINI involves adding a good set of shocks and a larger rear sway bar. (H-sport is a popular brand for the latter.) Supposedly the shocks on the MINIs aren't the best, though I have no complaints with the ones on my Cooper with the sport suspension option. And most FWD cars can benefit from a larger rear sway bar anyway, since almost everyone sets up the car to understeer at the limit.--DD

Dave,

Thanks for taking the time to lay out some of the basics. Your comment/recommendation brought this local CL offering to mind. But it's from 2002--is that still "1st generation"? What do you think of the "Alta" mods he's listed. It's certainly cheap enough so I might go out and give it a test drive. Or the very early models to be avoided?

EDIT: Gone from Craigslist so I guess someone snapped it up. 2002 "S" with "extensive Alta tuning," including upgraded shocks, suspension and other stuff. Nice looking, too.

STP

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

I think 2002 might be the first year of the MINI! Very much 1st-gen.

Alta is a brand of aftermarket parts. They make a whole ton of stuff; but I'm not sure what "extensive Alta tuning" would be.

Anyway, I still suggest looking at 2005-2006 Cooper S cars. At least drive one and see if the handling/ride compromise is good. Also check that the interior space is sufficient for your needs.

--DD

[racer]

x2 on the latest of the first Gen 1 cars (2005-6). Never had one but test drove several over the years. They are just a little too small for my needs.

Also consider, that they are BMW's.. and some of the parts or dealer costs to repair things can be high. They are often not well regarded by "consumer reports" crowds for durability/reliability as well.

You don't mention your budget, but what about a GTI? They are just about the perfect all around hatch. They might even swallow a bike!

[wayner]

I had a 2008. Worst car that I ever owned from a maintenance perfective. I put $9k into it in 3 years!!!

I got rid of it after reading internet forums and developing fears of losing an engine. I found out that two years later the new owners DID lose an engine

Mine is only one opinion but while fun I vote crap!