The Many Faces of the .45

[tabs]

Originally Posted by fred cook

I have a nice 15X Lyman Super Targetspot scope complete with wood case and original instructions and paperwork that I would be willing to let go. The lens covers are missing in action.


Scope in the box


Instructions, original


Scope mounted on my 1928 Winchester Model 52 (rifle not for sale!)

You have the light barrel 52. I have the heavy in the prewar and a D along with a Remington 37.

[vash]

Fred..neat scope!!

what something like that gonna set me back? i also have a fifty-two.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by fred cook

Don't leave out the widely used British 577/450 round as used in the Martini Henry rifle!

Doh! Shame on me. How could I have forgotten this one?

Originally Posted by fred cook

The Spencer carbine/rifle was first built in a 46-56 caliber cartridge. Depending on which example you measure, the bullet diameter can be anywhere from .44 to .46 caliber. It predated the Henry by about 2-3 years. There is documentation that some of the Pony Express riders carried a 46-56 Spencer carbine in 1859. Considering that S&W didn't start making the .22 short until 1859, the Spencer has got to be one of the earliest successful fully contained cartridges made.

Thanks Fred, I should have known we could count on you for your depth of knowledge on this topic. I swear, with guys like you, tabby, John Rogers, FOG, Rick Lee, svandamme, and others, PPOT is one of the better shooting forums on the web.

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Doh! Shame on me. How could I have forgotten this one?



Thanks Fred, I should have known we could count on you for your depth of knowledge on this topic. I swear, with guys like you, tabby, John Rogers, FOG, Rick Lee, svandamme, and others, PPOT is one of the better shooting forums on the web.

I don't know nothin.......and tend to prove it almost every day (according to my wife)! I just have all this useless trivia running around in my head and some of it leaks out occasionally!

[tabs]

If you are going to screw around with something then you screw around with the best, and leave the rest for the kiddy's.




Finnish MN mdl 39... 7.62 X 54R all matching, no import marks, great wood, looks to be unissued condition . Hard to find in this condition.

The Finns didn't have the money nor capability to create their own weapons system, so they used what they had plenty of and that was MN's from every corner of Europe. They subcontracted their barrels as well as produced them themselves. they used the receivers and other assorted parts creating what is considered to be the Cadilliac of MN's. The accuracy of which was on par with the best that Europe had. Total producton on the 39's was 101K. Produced from 1940 through WW2 with small production after the war ceasing around 1973.

All 39's are rebuilds of the earlier 91's.... Total production on the MN's is 37M. Used by the Russians from 1891 through WW2 and beyond, NK, China, N Viet, all the Warsaw Pac or Eastern Bloc nations, the USA during it's Russian incursion after WW1 and during the Spanish Civil War...plus?

All MN's were dirt cheap until a few years ago. Then as with everything else the prices stated to escalate. Today a run of the mill 91 and sub variations start at about $300. Then we start to move up the food chain. Recently a M39 with a Tikka barrel sold for $1763.00. It is a very rare bird indeed.

About 10 years ago I had an inkling to buy a MN with some cheap ammo with the idea of going to the range and popping off some rounds. I thought well that is kind of pointless as it is beneath my dignity as an advanced collector who has better fish to fry. So what has changed is that I have read a bio of Stalin which fills in a gap in my knowledge about the early Soviet period. Which peeks my interest to have a representative. piece. That and seeing a MN posted here. I have always known that the Finnish MN's were the way to fly...but who cared? So as I stumbled across a nice one I decided to go for it, as trying to find another one as nice would be tough. There are some unissued ones out there where the wood (on mine the SN is stamped into the stock) isn't nearly as nice for $700, they also have import marks.

Next stop will be a K31.

Other previously cheap surplus mil rifles that are enjoying a price appreciation among others are the Enfields the No 4 Mk ll unissued in particular, Arisaka's with the Mum intact is prized, and WW1 German Mausers...any GEW 98 or KAR 98 AZ with matching numbers is worth buying (they are very tough to find), a 1916 date is the one most likely to have matching numbers and be a WW1 vet bring back. The Springfield 03's and variations 1917'S, M1 Carbines and Garands...have always had a cache.

In general military surplus stuff is now catching on. The existing supply's have or are drying up.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

You forgot:

LOL!!

..... and....






sorry if I trigger some folks, I thought it was funny.

[Eric at Pelican Parts]

Here’s a few:

This thread inspired me to drag out my Dad's .45 S&W that he brought home from the Navy. First time out of the safe in a year or more. I got the gun about seven years ago--it had been lost for a decade after his death, then turned up in a shed at my BIL's house.

I had it looked over by a local gunsmith, who pronounced it good to go, so I took it to the range and fired away. The thing is so heavy it's surprisingly soft shooting, and the trigger pull is light and smooth. Decent accuracy with the longish barrel.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by madcorgi

This thread inspired me to drag out my Dad's .45 S&W that he brought home from the Navy. First time out of the safe in a year or more. I got the gun about seven years ago--it had been lost for a decade after his death, then turned up in a shed at my BIL's house.

I had it looked over by a local gunsmith, who pronounced it good to go, so I took it to the range and fired away. The thing is so heavy it's surprisingly soft shooting, and the trigger pull is light and smooth. Decent accuracy with the longish barrel.

SW mdl 1917. 45 acp, issued during WW1, when there were not enough 1911's to go around. It is a 2nd model hand ejector.

[KFC911]

My contribution to this thread is the gold standard of them all...

Colt .45 Malt Liquor

Mmmmm....(never had it, but enjoy this thread)

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by madcorgi

This thread inspired me to drag out my Dad's .45 S&W that he brought home from the Navy. First time out of the safe in a year or more. I got the gun about seven years ago--it had been lost for a decade after his death, then turned up in a shed at my BIL's house.

I had it looked over by a local gunsmith, who pronounced it good to go, so I took it to the range and fired away. The thing is so heavy it's surprisingly soft shooting, and the trigger pull is light and smooth. Decent accuracy with the longish barrel.

Those are fantastic, but very unappreciated guns. Every now and then S&W will manufacture a revolver in .45 ACP, not sell very many, and quit again for awhile. I really should pick one up one of these days.

One of my shooting buddies and I got to "fighting" over over one of these at a gun show many years ago. He won the coin toss and nabbed it. He also scored a good supply of .45 Auto Rim brass, eliminating the need for moon clips. He brings it pretty much every time we go shooting, just to remind me of that coin toss. What are friends for, anyway?

[tabs]

I bought a smith 4 screw 6 inch mdl 1955 wt Smith presentation case practically new for 275.

Today the 55's have gone up significantly. They are not unappreciated anymore. Old Smith's are hot.

I also have the Colt 1917 in mint condition. That also was 275

[berettafan]

man I am fighting the call to get into pistol reloading....this thread doesn't help!

tabs the '$75 piece of wood' surely looks lovely!

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Those are fantastic, but very unappreciated guns. Every now and then S&W will manufacture a revolver in .45 ACP, not sell very many, and quit again for awhile. I really should pick one up one of these days.

One of my shooting buddies and I got to "fighting" over over one of these at a gun show many years ago. He won the coin toss and nabbed it. He also scored a good supply of .45 Auto Rim brass, eliminating the need for moon clips. He brings it pretty much every time we go shooting, just to remind me of that coin toss. What are friends for, anyway?

I knew you'd now about it, Jeff. Yeah, those moon clips are a pain in the ass. What rounds should I get for it that will not require them? I know little about .45s.

I'm as accurate with it as with my Sig 229 in .40. Not quite as accurate as with my Walther PPQ with 5" barrel in 9mm.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by madcorgi

I knew you'd now about it, Jeff. Yeah, those moon clips are a pain in the ass. What rounds should I get for it that will not require them? I know little about .45s.

I'm as accurate with it as with my Sig 229 in .40. Not quite as accurate as with my Walther PPQ with 5" barrel in 9mm.

It's called ".45 Auto Rim". It's just the .45 ACP case formed with a rim so it can be used in revolvers without the need for the moon clips. It can be very hard to find, and expensive when you do find it. Relatively few shooters even know about it, much less use it.

One would think, since S&W periodically makes revolvers chambered in .45 ACP, that there would be a market for Auto Rim ammo. They are currently producing one, as a matter of fact, in some Jerry Miculek special edition of some kind. Such is not the case, however, since the new .45 ACP revolvers are chambered a bit differently than the old wartime guns. The new ones head space on the case mouth, just like the auto pistols do, rather than on the rim like other revolvers. This makes them usable with standard .45 ACP cases without moon clips. Extraction remains a problem, with no rim for the ejector star to grab, but cases will probably just fall out without using the ejector. Or just pop them out with a pencil.

In my buddy's case, being a hand loader, when he found the brass he was pretty much set for life. It uses the same component bullets, same powders, same primers, and same loading data as the .45 ACP, so it's really easy to reload for it. The brass is the hangup.

[Eric at Pelican Parts]

Never fired Les Baer 25th Anniversary

[Jim Bremner]

not mine.Marlin camp carbine 45acp

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

It's called ".45 Auto Rim". It's just the .45 ACP case formed with a rim so it can be used in revolvers without the need for the moon clips. It can be very hard to find, and expensive when you do find it. Relatively few shooters even know about it, much less use it.

One would think, since S&W periodically makes revolvers chambered in .45 ACP, that there would be a market for Auto Rim ammo. They are currently producing one, as a matter of fact, in some Jerry Miculek special edition of some kind. Such is not the case, however, since the new .45 ACP revolvers are chambered a bit differently than the old wartime guns. The new ones head space on the case mouth, just like the auto pistols do, rather than on the rim like other revolvers. This makes them usable with standard .45 ACP cases without moon clips. Extraction remains a problem, with no rim for the ejector star to grab, but cases will probably just fall out without using the ejector. Or just pop them out with a pencil.

In my buddy's case, being a hand loader, when he found the brass he was pretty much set for life. It uses the same component bullets, same powders, same primers, and same loading data as the .45 ACP, so it's really easy to reload for it. The brass is the hangup.

Found this on Gunbroker this morning. 100 pieces of empty auto rim brass for $24.00! https://www.gunbroker.com/item/779374633

[Bill Douglas]

Then there is the .45 acp Uzi.

A friend has used one and says the 9mm is much more manageable.