PPI - question

DWBOX2000 · 10-02-2018, 02:42 AM

I've decided to go forward and perhaps purchase a 99 Carrera 4. When looking for a place to do a PPI, what is a must?
Also, how do they know the health of the motor? I imagine most can't just do an oil analysis on the spot.
Thanks,
David

1990C4S · 10-02-2018, 03:44 AM

Compression, leak down, cold start.

Get the AWD checked out, the AC, and make sure the low AWD switch works.

And look for head issues, I think the 99 was the no head gasket year...

DanielDudley · 10-02-2018, 03:53 AM

Find a garage familiar with 911s, and make sure they don't have a heavy affiliation with the current owner.

If you let us know where you live, it is quite possible someone could recommend a mechanic or shop. ''Looking for a mechanic out in Left Field for PPI'' makes a great thread title, and gets people in that area paying attention.

DWBOX2000 · 10-02-2018, 04:33 AM

Thanks Guys.

That head gasket thing is crazy. I understand cost savings but how much can that really save vs reputation. Funny how 1999 sort of reduces the IMS issue but now there is a head gasket issue and what's the other problem, (D Chunking or something like that.)

The are 3 independents that I can think of in the immediate area. One I think this place uses. I'm checking him off. The other two, I have to think about. One is Rensport in Framingham MA and the other is South shore AutoWerks in Kingston MA. I am familiar with the latter, the 1st my friend recommended. Southshore has all the latest and greatest tools, the owner was a head mechanic at a dealership for approx 15 years up until started this shop a few years ago. He's helped keep my Boxster healthy. I know the other because all my air cooled friends love this guy and he's been around forever.
Any thoughts?

1990C4S · 10-02-2018, 06:34 AM

I doubt the head gasket was cost savings...probably a technical decision. And far better to have a head gasket failure than an IMS failure...

Rtrorkt · 10-02-2018, 07:36 AM

had a 99 C2. Issue to investigate are in no particular order.
IMS (cars that have been driven seem to have fewer issues)
Rear main seal
coolant expansion tank
timing chain
Seat belt interlock (warning light issue)
Otherwise the car was pretty good. Did a fair amount of DE in it

DWBOX2000 · 10-02-2018, 08:08 AM

Thanks. If the RMS or timing chain are a problem, I am walking away. I am pretty sure the dealer wouldn't fix. He would likely wait for the next sucker to buy based on looks. I've been that sucker so I am trying not to repeat the past.

For the timing chain, do they test that with a reader or do they have to pull apart to look. I am thinking the RMS is just looking for a leak, is that correct?

Thanks again.

Rtrorkt · 10-02-2018, 08:17 AM

Look at the records. IMS failures cannot be seen. Metal fragments in the oil are an indicator, but you need to get at the magnet in the case. Most should have been fixed by now. If it is fixed, then understand the method and parts used. Timing chain is a mileage/age issue. No way to really check. Records should show what has been done

onewhippedpuppy · 10-02-2018, 08:43 AM

Timing chain tensioners and some forms of IMS failure can both be seen through a cam deviation check I believe, which is done via computer. RMS, coolant tank, water pump is basically a visual check for leaks. Seat belt buckle will trigger the SRS light. Bore scoring or d-chunk is typically an infant mortality issue, considering the mileage of the car you are considering it should be a moot concern, but would show up during a compression or leakdown test. I've never heard of a 996 with a head gasket issue, and the 1999 does have a head gasket. Are you guys thinking of the early 964s that didn't have a head gasket? There are a few instances of 996 heads cracking, but that's often associated with overheating.

Any good indy Porsche shop should be able to give you a good PPI. The 9X6 cars are common and the PPI checks are pretty routine, even a compression or leakdown test isn't rocket science.

Btw, glad you are moving forward with that car. It looked very nice and was fairly priced.

VincentVega · 10-02-2018, 10:22 AM

Agree on checking cam deviation. I'd pass unless unless it was checked. Also worth looking at over revs when its plugged in. Other than that, at least to me, check like any other used car.

good luck!

onewhippedpuppy · 10-02-2018, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VincentVega

Agree on checking cam deviation. I'd pass unless unless it was checked. Also worth looking at over revs when its plugged in. Other than that, at least to me, check like any other used car.

good luck!

Agreed on the over-revs, though the 9X6 DME only has two ranges and some cars have been found with errors. For instance, I had a 987 that had 1 (yes 1) range 6 but 0 range 5. Not only is 1 range 6 almost physically impossible, but getting to range 6 without registering a range 5 is most certainly impossible. The RPMs have to go through range 5 to get to range 6. For me, I wouldn't disqualify an otherwise nice car because of the over-rev report.

This should all be part of the basic DME scan that any good PPI should include, and you don't need any more than a laptop and Durametric software to run it.

DWBOX2000 · 10-03-2018, 04:54 AM

I am currently waiting for the dealer to get the ABS light and PASM switch to work. Been two days, something tells me he is going to have send out. We will see what happens.

Now when they check the chains, is that a "this moment in time" thing or can they tell if they will need to be fixed soon. (I think it's two chains). Can they tell the overall health of the chains and be able to report that they should last quite a while or they will likely need to be replaced in a year? Sorry, still trying to learn this stuff.

onewhippedpuppy · 10-03-2018, 05:28 AM

Cam deviation isn’t a yes/no, there is an acceptable range. As long as you are within the range it’s all good. Based on what I’ve read the numbers within the range tend to vary, so it’s hard to gauge wear without knowing where the engine started. It’s not a super common issue so I wouldn’t dwell on it.

recycled sixtie · recycled sixtie's Garage

Lots of good info above DW. I will add to this from my experience with my old 2001 Boxster. Find the best person to do the PPI you can find. Check with your local PCA Club as a source for this?

My 2001 Boxster had a CEL with out of tolerance camshaft deviation. I had the mechanic reset the CEL and I sold it before the CEL came on again but told the prospective buyer of the situation with the CEL.

Another pitfall for the buyer to look for is the removal of the bulb for the CEL. I am sure there are slimeball sellers that might do this. So before starting the car turn the ignition on (without starting it) and make sure all check lights illuminate especially the CEL one.

Before I bought my Boxster I did look at a 99 911. I thought it was a great car but the Boxster felt sportier. I would still consider an older 911 as my next Porsche but make sure you do the research. Also you might consider having the ims bearing renewed for peace of mind if you buy it.

I credit Bell on this forum for giving me the best diagnosis of what was wrong with my old Boxster and what should be done to fix it. Too bad that Bell lived in Florida and I live in Canada or my old Boxster would have had a different outcome.

DWBOX2000 · 10-03-2018, 06:32 AM

Thanks guys for all your help. Feelig better.

No problem with the Box, it's a great car. I just want a 4 seater. Agree it does feels sporty.

Yes the Box won't have the same top speed but I'm not doing over 160 to often.

Thanks again, this is all very helpful.

DWBOX2000 · 10-04-2018, 05:37 AM

Oh my head.

My mechanic is telling me to get a 2002 or newer C2. More power, more reliability, better car. He's says he can feel the difference in power.

I have to think about this one some more i guess.

recycled sixtie · recycled sixtie's Garage

I cannot comment on the year of 911 to get. Having said that the early ones such as the 99 are more attractively priced. Myself I prefer the coupe but each one to their own.

One thing to add when your tech does the PPI is to make sure that the engine is fully warmed up so an accurate code reading can be taken of cam deviation. A cool engine will likely give a different code reading for cam deviation which is not what you want.

Do your due diligence, try and get service records. Patience will be rewarded.