#MeToo

[Por_sha911]

Sexual abuse and harassment are heinous and should be prosecuted.

False accusations (for profit or political motive) should be prosecuted just as severely since they destroy the credibility of those who genuinely are victims.

Unfortunately, into today's society, every male is guilty until proven innocent. ie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Banks_(American_football) Even after the accusations are proven false, lives have been destroyed.

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Yea, I spent may years in the days of dial up modems commands. The pound sign, tilde, back slash and forward slash were just common lingo. My brain reads # as pound every-time.

How did they get hashtag from the pound sign?

[86 ssinit]

Originally Posted by berettafan

I thought a 'me too movement' was having to poop at the same time as someone else.

I thought the me too movement was for all those who own mustangs, corvettes and challengers. No?

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Exactly. Gotta wonder how many women, particularly in Hollywood, made their careers flat on their backs. Conversely, how many have tried and failed. Women can be horribly manipulative, vindictive, dishonest creatures. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."

I'm gonna say most of Hollywood has. And it makes sense, too. Hollywood has been drenched with sex ever since it ever was. Sex in every which way seems to be the currency of Hollywood. And for many years it was unabashed about it and more so recently. Probably still is. When you start seeing frumpy ugly old fat people, men and women, without paint and wearing sacks for clothes breaking into the big time you can be assured Hollywood has changed.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ

How did they get hashtag from the pound sign?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

I'm gonna say most of Hollywood has. And it makes sense, too. Hollywood has been drenched with sex ever since it ever was. Sex in every which way seems to be the currency of Hollywood. And for many years it was unabashed about it and more so recently. Probably still is. When you start seeing frumpy ugly old fat people, men and women, without paint and wearing sacks for clothes breaking into the big time you can be assured Hollywood has changed.

Meh, people don't want to watch movies with unattractive people.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Unfortunately, into today's society, every male is guilty until proven innocent.

Also unfortunately every female who makes an accusation is assumed to be guilty of lying about it. How do you resolve the paradox if everyone is assumed innocent?

Assume the man is innocent - he didn’t do it.
Assume the woman is innocent - he did it.

For much of history it was mostly assumed women were guilty of lying, to the point where they wouldn’t even bother to report it. Fortunately we seem to be moving to an era when the assumption of innocence is more even handed.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Sexual abuse and harassment are heinous and should be prosecuted.

False accusations (for profit or political motive) should be prosecuted just as severely since they destroy the credibility of those who genuinely are victims.

Unfortunately, into today's society, every male is guilty until proven innocent. ie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Banks_(American_football) Even after the accusations are proven false, lives have been destroyed.

Very good post. These are serious crimes but they need to be dealt with by an even hand. Guilty until proven innocent is not how our system works. Sadly the court of public opinion is held to no such standard.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Sexual abuse and harassment are heinous and should be prosecuted.

False accusations (for profit or political motive) should be prosecuted just as severely since they destroy the credibility of those who genuinely are victims.

Unfortunately, into today's society, every male is guilty until proven innocent. ie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Banks_(American_football) Even after the accusations are proven false, lives have been destroyed.

I agree. In another thread, I suggested that if someone makes a false accusation, they are prosecuted for that. But the unique aspect, if they are found guilty, they are sentanced equal to the falsely accused crime. Falsely accuse muder, you are sentanced like a murderer. Falsly accuse rape, you are setanced like a rapist.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Also unfortunately every female who makes an accusation is assumed to be guilty of lying about it. How do you resolve the paradox if everyone is assumed innocent?

That is why our legal system is founded on the principle of innocent until proven guilty. Want to make an accusation? Have a witness or a blue dress with a semen stain on it... If a woman is raped, go to the hospital and have the exam to gather evidence. If there is physical abuse, there will be evidence. If you regretted what you did last night, that is not a crime.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

If a woman is raped, go to the hospital and have the exam to gather evidence.

Why bother, we have, by some estimates, 10s of thousands of untested rape kits in the country. Nobody really cares or believes the accusers.

https://www.npr.org/2016/01/17/463358406/whats-being-done-to-address-the-countrys-backlog-of-untested-rape-kits

"On the backlog numbers at its worst
Unfortunately, we don't have an overarching number (of untested rape kits) so that's why we still talk in estimates and that maintains the problem. But if you look at states like Texas, where they were one of the pioneers in auditing and inventory in their kits, they had 20,000 kits. We had thousands in cities alone and the numbers were to say the least disturbing. In Illinois, 4,000 kits. Michigan, 11,000 in Detroit alone. In Ohio, 4,000 kits found in Cleveland and then 10,000 kits across the state."

If no one is going to look at the evidence they gather after you go to a hospital and submit your crotch for examination by a bunch of strangers, there isn't a strong incentive to go through the additional humiliation. Being raped is bad enough.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

That is why our legal system is founded on the principle of innocent until proven guilty. Want to make an accusation? Have a witness or a blue dress with a semen stain on it..

Why?
Why assume the accuser is guilty of lying and he/shehas to prove they aren't? Why not assume the accused is guilty of assault or whatever and they have to prove they aren't?

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Why?
Why assume the accuser is guilty of lying and he/shehas to prove they aren't? Why not assume the accused is guilty of assault or whatever and they have to prove they aren't?

Who on earth says this? And you know as well as everyone else here that is not our legal system. France, yes. UCMJ, yes. USA, NO!

[fintstone]

I found this perspective interesting:


Actress Kristy Swanson (Buffy the Vampire Slayer from the movie by that name) puts it in perspective:
https://video.foxnews.com/v/5845167553001/

[red-beard]

I present the 5th and 6th Amendments:

AMENDMENT V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

AMENDMENT VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

In many states, presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial, and it is an international human right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 11. Under the presumption of innocence, the legal burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which must collect and present compelling evidence to the trier of fact. The trier of fact (a judge or a jury) is thus restrained and ordered by law to consider only actual evidence and testimony presented in court. The prosecution must, in most cases prove that the accused is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. If reasonable doubt remains, the accused must be acquitted.

So, that is why.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Why?
Why assume the accuser is guilty of lying and he/shehas to prove they aren't? Why not assume the accused is guilty of assault or whatever and they have to prove they aren't?

Lets suppose:
I have just paid your neighbor to accuse you of attempting to sexually assault them. YOU must prove your innocence. That puts time and expense on your shoulders to defend yourself of a bogus claim. In the meantime, since you are assumed guilty until proven innocent, you have been fired, your wife has left you, you cannot see your children or grandchildren (pending on your age), no one will come near you, and, worst of all, you have to prove a negative (which is virtually impossible). I will now propose that everyone here should refuse to discuss anything with you since you are a sexual predator until proven otherwise. Welcome to the Hell you propose.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I present the 5th and 6th Amendments:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

So, that is why.

So who is the accused?

“He assaulted me.”
“She’s lying”

Two accusations. Your 5th and 6th amendments should apply to both, no?

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

So who is the accused?

“He assaulted me.”
“She’s lying”

Two accusations. Your 5th and 6th amendments should apply to both, no?

Is lying, except under oath, a crime?

Assault is a crime. It has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Lets suppose:

We can suppose a million scenarios. That one is pretty far out there. I doubt that it has ever happened. When it is so common that it has its own definition, like “date rape” I will be glad to talk about what we should do about the problem of “accusations for hire.”

[Por_sha911]

Sorry wd, I am not talking to you any longer. You've been accused of sexual assault and until you PROVE your innocence I am assuming you are guilty.