Limo crash, 20 dead

[David]

The driver may not have known the road but his wife said he was an experienced truck driver and was licensed to carry up to 15 people so it's not like he was just some guy off the streets. Since an Excursion is already a 4 ton vehicle designed to tow 6 more tons, I expect the brakes when new were capable of handling the added size of the stretched section and the passengers, I just think they were not maintained and failed.

[porsche930dude]

I can tell you this. Its not hard to pass nys inspection. Go to a few shops that fail you and eventually somebody will point you to a place that will pass you. But expecially on big vehicles like a limo you cant get it in the shop on a lift and things dont get looked over very well.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Probably lost their lives because of salted roads.
I did not read this whole thread-dismiss as required.

In NYS a vehicle brakes system literally ROTS out.
It happened to me ..I hit the brakes and SQUISH........and this is on a BIG one ton dually going dwn a BIG hill.
Here is the thing that pisses me off-
Most the stores here sell LeGAL brakes lines called copper-nickel.
It will not ROT out.
Why are vehicles NOT built with it?
ESP a commercial vehicle.!!
Goverment will never save us.

I thought hard brake lines were stainless.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by porsche930dude

I can tell you this. Its not hard to pass nys inspection. Go to a few shops that fail you and eventually somebody will point you to a place that will pass you. But expecially on big vehicles like a limo you cant get it in the shop on a lift and things dont get looked over very well.

Agreed. Back in the 1980's, I had a buddy who's very old college 280Z kept failing inspection. He was getting it inspected after work (dressed in a Suit, etc). So he put on ripped jeans and an old t-shirt and sneakers. Made himself look poor. He passed.

[sammyg2]

Lots of speculation in this thread.
I'm surprised no one tried to blame the loch ness monster.

tree fiddy.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Lots of speculation in this thread.
I'm surprised no one tried to blame the loch ness monster.

tree fiddy.

[cairns]

Well the owner of the company (actually the owner's son- who runs the place on a day to day basis) was charged with negligent homicide so there must have been a big problem with that truck. He had his bags packed and was ready to hoof it back to Pakistan.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I thought hard brake lines were stainless.

Nope. OEM is usually coated steel at best.

[sammyg2]

And brake line is typically annealed to make it soft enough to bend without kinking.
It's about as tough as aluminiumunum.

[RSBob]

Owner of lemo co. Just charged with homicide.

Lemos fall in a gray area when it comes to safety standards, ie brake size to slow the extra mass, additional structural integrity, seat belts etc. anybody can make one using whatever shoddy methods they want and put one on the road and this is a case in point.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Nope, crap steel is all I have ever seen.

On several of the 914's, we replaced the OEM lines and I swear the lines we picked up from our FLAPS were stainless steel. I remember designed the run with a coat hanger, then using tubing benders to make the part.

I know I did this for Mike95125 aka Dr.Evil back about 2003.

[speeder]

James, pretty sure that you can buy SS, (as you did), but OEM is as cheap as it gets.

The other weak spot in the chain is the rubber brake hoses to the individual wheel brakes, I always change them on my older vehicles. They are supposed to be changed every 10 years,(?), no one ever does it. I just looked at a 1982 Mercedes for a friend and sure enough, original hoses. They have a month/year date of manufacture on them along w DOT stamp for the U.S. They rarely burst but they definitely deteriorate on the inside, sometimes swelling almost shut and acting like a check valve, IOW letting fluid through when you apply the brakes but not letting it back towards master cylinder when you release them. In rare cases, this can cause catastrophic heat buildup and a fire. I've seen it happen.

Change those rubber hoses!

[speeder]

Originally Posted by cairns

Well the owner of the company (actually the owner's son- who runs the place on a day to day basis) was charged with negligent homicide so there must have been a big problem with that truck. He had his bags packed and was ready to hoof it back to Pakistan.

I'm picturing the final scene in Fargo where William Macy is halfway out the window when the cops grab his legs and pull him back in.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Government will never save us.

I couldn't agree more. I read somewhere that the FAA inspects < 1% of all aircraft. Some regulations can help some of the time, but the threat of lost business opportunity, jail time and the owner's character are really all you've got.

Limo users need to know something about the company they're hiring. Read reviews. And refuse to board an unfit vehicle.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by Adrian Thompson

What the hell does being foreign have to do with it?

Mr. Thompson - what are we to do with the personal experiences we have? Just ignore them. The man said nothing about "all foreigners", but if his experience has been like mine (in construction), we see business owners from other country's time and again using lax safety measures, not following the building code, etc. They are often using the same methods as they did in their home countries.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by speeder

James, pretty sure that you can buy SS, (as you did), but OEM is as cheap as it gets.

The other weak spot in the chain is the rubber brake hoses to the individual wheel brakes, I always change them on my older vehicles. They are supposed to be changed every 10 years,(?), no one ever does it. I just looked at a 1982 Mercedes for a friend and sure enough, original hoses. They have a month/year date of manufacture on them along w DOT stamp for the U.S. They rarely burst but they definitely deteriorate on the inside, sometimes swelling almost shut and acting like a check valve, IOW letting fluid through when you apply the brakes but not letting it back towards master cylinder when you release them. In rare cases, this can cause catastrophic heat buildup and a fire. I've seen it happen.

Change those rubber hoses!

I had a 914 with a frozen brake. It was a rubber line turned into a check-valve

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by daepp

Mr. Thompson - what are we to do with the personal experiences we have? Just ignore them. The man said nothing about "all foreigners", but if his experience has been like mine (in construction), we see business owners from other country's time and again using lax safety measures, not following the building code, etc. They are often using the same methods as they did in their home countries.

If they could get bamboo scaffolding, they would use bamboo scaffolding!

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by speeder

I'm picturing the final scene in Fargo where William Macy is halfway out the window when the cops grab his legs and pull him back in.

Or maybe .......

[Adrian Thompson]

Originally Posted by daepp

Mr. Thompson - what are we to do with the personal experiences we have? Just ignore them. The man said nothing about "all foreigners", but if his experience has been like mine (in construction), we see business owners from other country's time and again using lax safety measures, not following the building code, etc. They are often using the same methods as they did in their home countries.

It struck me as a gross generalization that we see all the time in this society of blaming those not like, or lucky enough to be us. Your post has some context added and if I don't fully agree with you, I have no problem with it. Maybe it's the lack of ability to convey context online. I see many times where people are judged purely on their skin color, accent, vocabulary etc. Normally when people judge in that manor and add no context it implies lack of respect for, and or a feeling of superiority too, those being called out. If that truly wasn't the intention then I apologies. Call out poor standards, deliberate avoidance of rules, regulations, deliberately hiring non qualified people etc. But there's no need to add in a generalization as to origin. No harm, no foul

[cairns]

But there's no need to add in a generalization as to origin.

There are bad people of every origin. But cultural standards are different. And while one shouldn't generalize we also need to accept and acknowledge that. When people from another culture move here they sometimes bring the worst aspects of their culture with them. The operator either is a crook who's too stingy to bring the vehicle up to standards or he's applying the same standards applied in Pakistan- in which case the generalization is apt. Or both- in which case the generalization is still apt. it has nothing to do with his skin color- but might have a lot to do with his culture.

Either way a lot of people are dead.