Hah, this happened in my driveway this Saturday.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1542012665.jpg

A free Lambo to drop your engine? I'm in, where, when? I'll do it myself while you watch, I'll bring the pizza, beer, and the tools. You can eat the pizza and drink the beer.

Sugar, this in fact does happen. Maybe you need to pop the bubble you live in. I know it’s hard for you to imagine anyone would “waste” 8-10 hours of their precious time helping “internet people”.
There is something special you get back from giving! Ever hear the saying the universe gives back what you put into it?
In the last 2 1/2 months I’ve had lumbar spinal fusion surgery and rotator cuff surgery. Rawknee and Bob Kontak both offered to fly across country to Nor Cal to put my new motor in. I know, they must be batchit crazy.
I will get it done with one arm and with the help of some Nor Cal Pelicans.

It’s a pretty special place here.
Tim

well I can't fly to your location. I did PM you this am to give me a call.. I'll try to help you trouble shoot your blower motor problems. The process is not hard just way to much to type.

LOL, if it's not a rare skill, why did they drive an hour to your house to get it done?
Changing a light bulb is an example of not a rare skill.
That is why people don't drive 1 hour to change someone's light bulb.
People do drive an house to get their CIS troubleshot. Ergo, it's a rare skill.

Interesting statement about learning from others, in person.
Everything I've learned about 911 has been through forums, books, and trial&error.
I've also learned a ton from YouTube for my other cars, but that does not exist for 911.
In the modern digital age, I have learned 0% of my limited wrenching skills from a live person.
This is a very very slow way to learn, but auto DIY is an inherently solitary task, in my world.

In 5 years of reading this forum, almost daily, I have never heard of an "engine drop party" within any reasonable distance.
If I did, I would gladly have gone just to observe. It simply does not exist.
There may have been one in DC a few years back, but it did not occur to me to go fly there to watch.

Yea, there are very few old 911s with (engine drop caliber) DIY owners around my parts.
I go to one large C&C event in the neighboring state, but there is minimal superficial interaction at these events.
Almost no one is talking to others. Like a concert. Lots of people, but people tend to talk to the people they went with.
One reason is that for a large event, owners are not near their cars, like you see at the Betty Boop diner cruise night with folding chairs.
But, over the years, if I've met air cooled owners, if I've run into 9/10 of them did not do meaningful DIY anyway.
No one has the time, skill, or experience. Everyone has bought into the mythology that cars are too complex to work on.

That said, if I had a WRX, it may be more viable to trade an engine swap for a slice of pizza.
WRX kids who are young and child-free tend to have a lot more time.

To summarize,
Air cooled cars are rare. Very rare. Most are never driven.
In 5 years, I have only ever seen ONE other one while driving in traffic.
Then it drove past me, and that was that.

Of course, I've talked to a couple at self-selected venues like DE, AX, C&C, & online forum
At these venues, when do you encounter someone with an air cooled car
10% of owners DIY
10% of those can engine drop
1% of those actually live in your state

I already said I know it CAN happen.
I myself have done a forum DIY collaboration via another car forum.
My premise is that it happens very very rarely.
Not nearly as often as the "engine drop for free pizza" phrase is blithely bandied about.


Offering to fly out do help you is beyond words.
We can agree Bob and Rawkness are in the 1% of the 1% of the 1%
and in no way represent any sort of broad reality, and are an exception to the rule.
Do you think they really would have dropped $1000 to fly to your house?

You are right, hoping to get help working on your car is a lost cause, it's been shown over and over in your threads.


Best option is to sell that accursed thing and get a modern car, which requires no labor on your part. It's been nothing but a pain for you since you got it, why even bother anymore? Move on! Be free! Buy a lovely Camry, and you can have years of effortless living in your automotive wasteland, where people don't talk to each other or help each other.

I do have a modern car,and I love it.
No one DD's their 911.

Just to be clear, I am not asking for someone to come help me with anything. Anything over my head goes to a pro mechanic. I do not have the facility for any major work
I was responding to another thread where a guy was told to provide free pizza in order to magically have people at his doorstep to help his do an engine swap or whatever.
I started this thread b/c I wondered how often it actually happens vs how often it's typed.

Sugar, I would obviously pay air faire and any expenses. Tim

Not to get this thread off track, but I’ll be taking my son’s rifle to my buddy’s brother’s place tomorrow to make use of his drill press and soft clamps to put sling swivel mounts in the stock.

Will be a 10 minute job. I will bring beer.

I don’t have an air cooled 911 at the moment. But if I did - I would drive it over there.

I have helped friends work on their cars, and they have helped me with mine. Sometimes there was beer and/or pizza involved. Usually - not. Just commaradarie.

Carry on.

Air cooled cars aren't all that rare. I live in a city of almost a million souls and I see them all the time (like one or two or more a week in the summer) and we have snow on the ground six months of the year. There are 911s, 964s and 993s, even an occasional 914 or 356, all people I don't know but always wave when I'm driving mine. Hell, even the two horse town I grew up in there was at least one. The Snap-On dealer had along hood he had set up for autocross. I never saw the car on the street but only found out he had one when I was at his place and noticed it in the garage. They're out there.

Locally, if I see a couple 911s parked at a coffee shop (air cooled or water - if they're congregating it's not a business meeting), I'll stop in and hunt them down inside - for some reason they're usually not difficult to spot and are always happy to meet another enthusiast.

A couple here have brushed against the elephant in the room, but I'm gonna come right out and say it. I think a large part of what you're experiencing, is based on attitude. This hobby, like most others, has a gravity. If you allow it and are open to others and put some real effort in, you'll find your people. But right now I think they aren't your people. Maybe get out there and don't "waste" one of your Saturdays but offer your hands to someone or a group thats doing some work on any car or truck. Be generous with your time. You gotta become one of those people to be part of them and make them yours.

Unless you live in some red neck tundra (nothing against red necks, some of my best friends are and I live in oil and cattle ranching country) where the only other vehicles for hundreds of miles around are old Ford pickups, there will be other car people. They don't have to be air cooled Porsche, but it might help with familiarity. Real car guys don't care what it is as long as it's cool. And virtually any air cooled 911 is cool.

Because I had the Gunson gas tester (not a lot of people do) and was willing to let them learn to use it.
So the scarcity of the tester is likely the driving force, and I'm fairly pleasant to talk to. (most of the time.... ) :)

I don't think it has much to do with me.
I have lots of friends from all walks of life.
I believe the culture barely exists.
Has there been even one engine pizza party on the east coast in the last 5 years?

As for meeting others, when I first got this car 5 years ago, I thought I'd try to find local guys to learn from.
DE, AX, PCA, C&C, etc. I don't even bother anymore. The people are few and far between,
and I have typically more DIY experience and more tools than most people I meet. And that's pretty sad!

Well, there ya go.
You live in a big city.

Wisconsin is probably an explanatory variable.
I know lots of people. Not one owns a drill press.
The culture does not exist everywhere.
I would love to borrow a drill press to push out a dented plastic bumper piece on my appliance.

God you annoy me sometimes. You keep saying things like that, and when people virtually LINE UP in your threads to tell you that your mistaken, you sit back, dig in your heels and insist that you are correct, we are all essentially lying to you.

People DO daily drive their cars (I did 70,000 miles in 9 years in mine). People DO figure out which 27mm socket to buy on their own. People DO drop their engines on their own (I do it at least once a year as a matter of maintenance). People DO rebuild their own engines in their garages, and people DO go and spend lots of free time helping others work on their cars.

Despite this, you will fight to your dying day that none of this happens.

It's no wonder that no one offers to drive an hour to help you, and it's no wonder that you would never consider doing that for someone else.

Mic drop...

I know it’s a teling thread but what what hell.

One of the first guys I met doing 911 things did an engine drop and rebuild in his 2-car garage in a nice area. He DD’d that thing for another 12 months without AC in a hot location. And it was black.

I went around to ‘help’ but mostly that was having a cold beer and listening to him vent about POs fixes.

I took mine out on the weekend - lots of thumbs up, had one guy request permission to take a photo. I don’t see how people would think the whole thing is somehow in decline.

This hits the nail on the head.

From my digging into the past, the forum evolved like this in the decades of its existence ...

Early 2000's - the pioneers

Mid 2000's to early 2010's - when the forum greats thrived and most of those "old timers" here first arrived

Mid 2010's till now - the "modern" era you are in.

Different folks, different strokes.

Even (some of) the same folks from the previous era who are still here have progressed to "different strokes", pardon the overuse of the expression.

BS. i do, and i am but one of many.

i think you are finding what you are looking for, and receiving what you put out in this world. much of what you hold and post here as fact is quite contrary to what many/most of us experience in the big scary world outside our front doors.

look for something different, you might find it.

if you stay a contrarian whose glass is perpetually half empty, well, more of the same for you i suppose...

I daily drove my 87 that's turbocharged for a few months until I was able to get a DD.

Before that, I daily drove a 996.

Didn't Ronin drive his car everyday?

dudes are getting together all the time for things like this. they're probably too busy working on their cars with their buddies to be posting about it on here!...

Truth.

Hey that's me you're talking about!! SmileWavy

I didn't know squat about Porsches 4 years ago. I finally got to the point I could afford one, I now have two, and have been learning how to fix and modify it ever since.
AC up-grades, suspension, brakes, camshafts, engine mods, tuning a CIS and more all from advise on this forum. Had a local guy and member here offer to come help pull the engine because he had never worked on a 930 before. I work on the car after work in the evening so I didn't take him up on it. But it happened.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/923329-79-610-winter-projects-advise-needed.html

shug needs help, but not necessarily with his car. im quite convinced he does things like this thread here on the PP BBS strictly to illicit responses he can debate for his own entertainment. we are all here to be entertained, but not in such a sick fashion.

when I discussed "vetting" someone I was considering helping out I used the term "basket case". well shug would likely fit that description in our 1st phone conversation on the matter and I would not want much to do with him. with some folks there's just no helping out on any level...


pmax? you just called me a "pioneer"?? maybe I have to change my avatar saying....

And maybe get a Charles Ingalls Little House on the Prairie hat... ;)

Not getting the hate.

I wouldn't hesitate helping Sugar with his engine drop if he's anywhere close. Having said that, I did mine solo and would suggest he does as well.


Wow, that's a long time. Who else is left ?

The funny thing is that every time I go to help someone out, I get way more in return. I’m not even a fair mechanic. I just offer to lend a hand. The last person I helped out, 6 hour round trip, they told me to tell them what week I wanted for my family and I to stay at their beach house - it’s a nice house! Every time I offer a part for free, I seem to get something better back without asking. Karma’s a ***** :-)

I think the increased value of the cars has a lot to do with it. When I first joined the forum the cars were worth much less and it wasn't cost effective to pay a mechanic for simple jobs. With the increased values the "raised pinky" crowd has moved in :)

My closest Porsche friend brings his 912 over all the time because I have the facilities and he has the beer. This still happens and everyone wins.

The exception only proves the rule. The fact that you RARELY see a 30 year old aircooled car with 200k miles proves that these are mostly garage trophy cars. The number of Toyotas with 150k on the clock is a dime a dozen. Why? Because DD.

You are not reading what I said. I never said people don't drop engines. I've seen many pics of the guy inside the engine bay. I am saying the number of people going to someone else's house for pizza is very low.

No one has offered to come to my house b/c I've never asked. Any heavy lifting is going to be done by a professional. I don't have the space.

That said, I am the one who offers n00b car friends help with basic DIY stuff many times. At this point, I am more experienced than most people I meet. I am the one who knocks!

This makes a lot of sense. I actually outlined a similar premise in this thread a few years back. You will appreciate the sentiment

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/898302-has-your-911-become-garage-trophy-you-never-drive.html

One the rare day I meet an owner of air cooled, if they are new, they are almost always a finance guy who commutes & works long days and barely has time to do an oil change on their own car. And they DIY skill is limited, like mine. They will not be doing engine drops at strangers' houses. As I've said, it's a combination of proximity, skills, and availability.

You deserve a hat tip.
That is truly incredible generosity.
6 hours is unfathomable.
It did not even occur to me this this is even in the realm of reality.
It makes me reevaluate my premise, as it never occurred to me this is a thing.
Can you imagine driving 3 hours to go play tennis with someone, or to jam in a band room?
No, I only consider the immediate local area. You have a hell of an open mind.

I've offered to help lots of non-car friends explore DIY, as I am the "car guy" in my various circles. After my last 3 hobby cars, I now have more experience than almost anyone I know, and I've been urging various friends for years to give it a shot. Most people have been brainwashed into thinking cars are too complex to work on because they are "all computers now", which is a total myth. Start small: brake job, fluid change, brake bleed, headlight bulb change, tire rotation, etc. They can use my garage. I will help. Use anything from my now $5k tool collection. Most people talk, and few gather the courage to learn something new in life.

I haven't touched my 911 or the tech section in years...haven't read much of this thread. I knew NOTHING about 911s 2 decades ago...found Pelican ;).

A quick look at my tech section posts tells the story best....I don't have to...lived it.

Sugarwood....your buddy likes disco and races Lincoln Mark IVs...you rock too...but clueless at times too :).

Sug, you aren't hearing of "engine drop" parties because it is a relatively easy and quick procedure. As with putting it back in. Anyone with a set of jack stands and floor jack can drop the engine. One guy can do it. But an extra set of hands just makes balancing everything a bit easier. I need help with the electrical system. That's where I would buy the pizza and beer.

After taking Boyt911SC's engine class I can see where if you have all the parts and tools two or three guys with experience could tear an engine down and put it back together in an afternoon. True enthusiasts revel in doing sheit like that. My engine class had six students plus Tony and two who just dropped by. I am comfortable in saying I think If I said I wanted to put an engine together I would have three from the class show up no question to lend a hand. and I can tell you if any one of them posted and I saw it I would be there doing what I could. And I can tell you only one person from my class lives less than an hour from my house. Most are an hour and a half or more away.

There are times I've helped people working on cars as an extra hand.

When doing this it is for fun.

I also do not take responsibility when doing it, the owner is in charge of each step and process.

There is a difference between a job and a hobby, for some there aspects of working on cars that they consider fun, continually buying project cars may not be in their budget, but having a small group of enthusiasts that involve other enthusiasts in their work is a win-win situation.

The personalities of both sides have to be in place. Instead of "saving money", both sides need to see it as casual enjoyment.

tim, im in the south bay and am very busy getting my house ready to sell in order to get the F out of the bay area in march, but if you need a hand and meet my 73 mile radius rule;) I could prolly make some time to help you out. PM me or email thru pelican to discuss when you are ready.

t

Yeah, that's kinda incredible.

Turning the tables around, that means the other party agreed to have him travel 6 hours to help them out on whatever the car needs.

I can't imagine imposing that on anyone or any friend for that matter, for anything which is not an emergency of sorts.

Call a local mechanic.

I'll tell ya who they are.... for a pizza and beer :D

For some, working on a particular project that appeals to them is like driving six hours to go hang out at a beach.

And they don't even have to buy the parts or the project.