Anti-Vaxxers

[john70t]

I'm not disparaging vaccines, per se.

I'm questioning the safety of the delivery methods and the media campaign$ for it.

[livi]

Originally Posted by red-beard

There is, but not a socially acceptable one

Now there is a thought.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by john70t

Vaccines are very useful...and there should be no denying the reality of most modern medicine....but:

2). All at once with no recovery/adaptation times?
3). To infants immediately out of the womb?
4). Some of these are for obscure diseases not seen in many decades in low contagion areas.
5). There are so many other known and immediate threats to public safety.

There is a reason the pill got reduced to 1/100th (or a lot) of its original potency.

2 - huh? they aren't given all at once. There is a schedule.
3 - huh? WTF are you talking about? They aren't given to babies as soon as they pop out. Babies are effectively immune as long as they are being breast fed.
4 - Maybe there's a reason the obscure diseases haven't been seen in decades. Maybe things are different these days and will all of the immigrants and international travel, things that weren't previously seen for decades in a specific area could pop up due to the addition of one immigrant from a country in Africa or somewhere else that doesn't have the same type of medical system as the US.
5 - You're absolutely right. We should stop all of this vaccine stuff and dedicate all of our time and energy to _____ instead.

Originally Posted by john70t

the media campaign$ for it.

The reason for the media campaign is probably largely related to the prevalence of social media and all of the morons the get on board when Jenny McCarthy or whoever it is decides that something is bad and declares it as fact online.

It's like fake news. One person puts out fake news and then 1000 other people spread it without any confirmation. To fix that fake news, is really difficult.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by masraum

2 - huh? they aren't given all at once. There is a schedule.
3 - huh? WTF are you talking about? They aren't given to babies as soon as they pop out.

I don't know the policies regarding injecting new babies.
Is this fake news then?

https://www.naturalnews.com/035448_vaccines_cocktail_homeopathic_remedies.html
"On December 4, 2011, however, under a tremendous amount of pressure from the family pediatrician, he and his wife acquiesced and allowed a single injection cocktail of seven vaccines, as follows: DPaT (3 vaccines: diphtheria, pertussis, tetnus), HIB, Pneumococcal, Polio, and Influenza."

[Tervuren]

I did not have vaccines as a youngin' and I grew up to be very weird.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by john70t

I don't know the policies regarding injecting new babies.
Is this fake news then?

https://www.naturalnews.com/035448_vaccines_cocktail_homeopathic_remedies.html
"On December 4, 2011, however, under a tremendous amount of pressure from the family pediatrician, he and his wife acquiesced and allowed a single injection cocktail of seven vaccines, as follows: DPaT (3 vaccines: diphtheria, pertussis, tetnus), HIB, Pneumococcal, Polio, and Influenza."

I think it's crap. Maybe that one doctor did apply pressure and I certainly would not allow my child to receive so many vaccines at once. Heck my boot camp vaccinations knocked the heck out of me and I was 18 yo.

But that's one story of what I consider to be a wildly inappropriate medical treatment. And homeopathy is a joke! I say that with absolute certainty given that most homeopathic remedies are vanishingly small doses of medicinal ingredients.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

There is no mention of insurance in any of the articles I’ve read. I wonder if insurance companies will eventually require vaccines as a condition of being insured.

That seems like it would be a possibility. Once a person becomes of age it is his decision. A reasonable insurer would insist on vaccinations as a requirement for insurance - at least for life insurance.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by masraum

2 - huh? they aren't given all at once. There is a schedule.
3 - huh? WTF are you talking about? They aren't given to babies as soon as they pop out. Babies are effectively immune as long as they are being breast fed...............

I am a big fan of using citations for a reason.

The main reason is it prevents me from making a mistake and having to correct myself.

Please provide a citation or two for the parts I highlighted in dark red.

I found this, and it's much worse than I ever could have dreamed up on my own.

Immunization Schedule
https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/immunization-chart.html

Birth

HepB: Hepatitis B vaccine. Ideally, the first dose is given within 24 hours of birth, but kids not previously immunized can get it at any age. Some low birth weight infants will get it at 1 month or when they're discharged from the hospital.

Why can't these shots be spread out over an even further time line like they do with livestock to prevent complications?

Aren't children at least as important as livestock?

From what I've read, most of the negative attention is given to the MMR: Measles, mumps, and rubella (German measles) vaccine. AKA the triple poke.

EDIT:

This is Germany's vaccination schedule, and I do not see any MMR (they do them singularly)
https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/Scheduler/ByCountry?SelectedCountryId=6&IncludeChildAgeGroup=true&IncludeChildAgeGroup=false&IncludeAdultAgeGroup=false

Pick a European country of your own choosing.

https://ecdc.europa.eu/en/immunisation-vaccines/EU-vaccination-schedules

The Vaccine Scheduler is an interactive tool that shows vaccination schedules for individual EU/EEA countries and specific age groups. With this tool comparisons can be made for vaccination schedules between two countries or by disease for all or a selection of countries. Despite this platform being continuously monitored, it is suggested the national competent bodies are also consulted for the most up to date schedules.

To clarify, I am not an antivaxer, I just have reservations about the triple poke not fit for livestock and Europeans, but just fine for Americans?

EDIT-2:
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
Vaccines Licensed for Use in the United States
https://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/vaccines/approvedproducts/ucm093833.htm
Product Name...................... Trade Name

Measles and Mumps Virus Vaccine, Live M-M-Vax
Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Virus Vaccine, Live M-M-R II
Measles, Mumps, Rubella and Varicella Virus Vaccine Live ProQuad

The bottom two M-M-R II and ProQuad are made by the same company, the M-M-Vax one I am not sure of.
Manufacturer: Merck & Co., Inc

UK
MMR Vaccine (Measles, Mumps and Rubella Vaccine)
MMR Vaccine (Measles, Mumps and Rubella Vaccine) | Vaccine Knowledge

Two brands of MMR vaccine are used in the UK: MMRVaxPro (see the Patient Information Leaflet ) and Priorix (see the Patient Information Leaflet ).

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/clinical-resources/mmr-faq-12-17-08.html

On October 21, 2009, Merck announced that based on input from the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), professional societies, scientific leaders, and customers, Merck has decided not to resume production of ATTENUVAX® (Measles Virus Vaccine Live), MUMPSVAX® (Mumps Virus Vaccine Live), and MERUVAX®II (Rubella Virus Vaccine Live).

What do health expert groups say regarding the use of separate and combination vaccines against measles, mumps, and rubella?

In the United States, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), and the American Academy of Family Practioners (AAFP) provide guidelines on vaccination and on the use of combination vaccines. ACIP recommends that “combined measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine generally should be used whenever any of its component vaccines is indicated.” Receiving MMR vaccine rather than the separate component vaccines results in fewer shots and decreases the chance of delays in protection against all three diseases (measles, mumps and rubella). The AAP also recommends that combined MMR vaccine be used for immunization of U.S. children against measles, mumps, and rubella.

April 2017
The Motley Fool
Merck Stock History: The Drugmaker's Boom, Bust, and Bounce Back
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/04/11/merck-stock-history-the-drugmakers-boom-bust-and-b.aspx

Feb 2, 2019
4 Things You Need to Know About Merck's Q4 Earnings Results
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/02/4-things-you-need-to-know-about-mercks-q4-earnings.aspx

3. The "solid six" delivered double-digit growth

As successful as Keytruda was for Merck in the fourth quarter, it wasn't the company's only star performer. Merck claimed six other top product lines that delivered solid double-digit growth in Q4.

The biggest winner among the group was Gardasil, with sales for the HPV vaccine soaring 32% year over year to $835 million. Sales for Bridion, an injection for reversing neuromuscular blockade induced by rocuronium bromide or vecuronium bromide in adults undergoing surgery, increased 23% over the prior-year period to $256 million. Sales for pneumococcal vaccine Pneumovax 23 rose 22% year over year to $322 million.

Merck's measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella vaccine franchise, which includes ProQuad, M-M-R II, and VariVax, saw Q4 sales increase by 13% to $455 million. Sales for birth control device NuvaRing jumped 15% to $216 million. And revenue from the company's companion animals products grew 12% year over year to $352 million.

Merck & Co
https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000000275

Total Lobbying Expenditures: $6,845,000

NOTE: All lobbying expenditures on this page come from the Senate Office of Public Records. Data for the most recent year was downloaded on January 24, 2019.

[Alan A]

Wow - you are an expert on medicine as well as aircraft and transportation.
A polyglot like yourself really needs a better handle. Kach-Vinc22i or something similar.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Wow - you are an expert on medicine as well as aircraft and transportation.
A polyglot like yourself really needs a better handle. Kach-Vinc22i or something similar.

Please stay on topic and take your garbage elsewhere.

Thank you.

[john70t]

Maybe the reason they are giving them at birth is because hospitals are disease factories.
(which charge citizens an arm and a leg...cough..cough)

Tons of sick people who could have been easily cured get mrsa and staph in those places.
My ex did this stuff for a living. A neighbor almost died twice. It is as bad as you think.

https://www.beckersasc.com/asc-quality-infection-control/7-statistics-on-healthcare-acquired-infections.html
"7 statistics on healthcare-acquired infections
1. Anyone admitted to a hospital has a 5 percent chance of contracting an HAI.

2. The hospital length of stay increases by 17.6 days when patients get an HAI.

3. Nearly 99,000 people die in the United States annually from HAIs; this is more than breast cancer and prostate cancer combined.

4. Around 9.4 percent of inpatient costs are HAI-related.

5. HAIs cost the healthcare system around $35 billion per year.

6. There are 69 percent of HAIs affect people with Medicare and Medicaid patients.

7. HAIs account for $1,100 per patient admission."

[KFC911]

PDP-11s, and their successors? Nuthin' against 'em... ancient, but still productive imo.



Vax - DEC ?

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by KC911

PDP-11s, and their successors? Nuthin' against 'em... ancient, but still productive imo.

Causes Tourette's Syndrome. I've seen it many times.

[tadd]

Kach:
Some vaccines have show to be enhanced when given with others... sympathetic immune response. So that is how they are given, to take advantage of the enhanced immune response.

It is truly shameful that we are so short sighted when it comes to anything we haven't seen with our own eyes. I get doubting Thomas, but just because I was born after polio doesn't mean it didn't happen and there wasn't pictures.

Maybe we need a good plague to remind us of what we are 'missing' when we vaccinate.

Id almost say, let those that don't vaccinate die or pay the hospital bill, but its not the adult that suffers, but the kid... I know, think of the children. But really, parents have a job. How about they do it.

[tadd]

John:
Hospitals are where sick people go, so yes, there will be disease there. Bleach is pretty much all there is to decon room.

People have decided hospitals are hotels. They are not. A hospital 'satisfaction form' should ask:
1. did you go out the door you came in (100% satisfaction)
2. did you go out the back door (0% satisfaction)

You feel like crap, go the hospital. Get treatment that makes you feel like crap, then go home. Days later you feel better... and the crazy thing is those 'satisfaction scores' are tied to the hospital getting to get paid. Its nuts.

[livi]

In summary then,

Vaccines are on a global scale one the medical inventions that have saved most lives and suffering. Among children I would rank it as number one.

Trust me. I am doctor.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by tadd

Kach:
Some vaccines have show to be enhanced when given with others... sympathetic immune response. So that is how they are given, to take advantage of the enhanced immune response.

Thank you, I did not know this.

Fewer and smaller doses certainly seems appealing on the surface, but the one shoe fits all might not be right for everyone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK190017/

Many vaccines, particularly subunit vaccines (e.g., recombinant hepatitis B and tetanus toxoid), contain adjuvants that help to increase the response rates to vaccines and facilitate the use of fewer and smaller doses (Coffman et al., 2010).

I don't know squat about T-Cells, so I'm off to layout a site plan - cheers.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-race-good-health/201303/autism-spectrum-disorders-racial-disparities-and-treatment

While there's no proven cure yet for autism spectrum disorder (ASD), treating ASD early, can greatly reduce symptoms and increase your child's ability to grow and learn new skills. According to the NIMH, research has shown that intensive behavioral therapy during the toddler or preschool years can significantly improve cognitive and language skills in young children with ASD.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by tadd

John:
Hospitals are where sick people go, so yes, there will be disease there. Bleach is pretty much all there is to decon room.

People have decided hospitals are hotels. They are not. A hospital 'satisfaction form' should ask:
1. did you go out the door you came in (100% satisfaction)
2. did you go out the back door (0% satisfaction)

You feel like crap, go the hospital. Get treatment that makes you feel like crap, then go home. Days later you feel better... and the crazy thing is those 'satisfaction scores' are tied to the hospital getting to get paid. Its nuts.

I work at hospital and patient satisfaction scores can get stupid.
Did you find a place to park?
Was the food good?
Were people nice to you?

[David]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I need to get a tetanus shot. With all the things I do around here I know I am at risk. If I had a kid at home I’d have him at the doc’s tomorrow for his shot, but can’t get around to taking care of myself.

I got a tetanus shot at 19 after one of my many accidents working on something. Ever since I've made sure to get another every year my age ends in 9. That makes it easy to remember. Better safe than sorry. Got several years til my next one at 59.