Opiods and work

[group911@aol.co]

Interesting;
https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroom-and-events/publications/working-papers/2019-working-papers/wp-1807r-opioids-and-labor-market

"This paper studies the relationship between local opioid prescription rates and labor market outcomes. We improve the joint measurement of labor market outcomes and prescription rates in the rural areas where nearly 30 percent of the US population lives. We find that increasing the local prescription rate by 10 percent decreases the prime-age employment rate by 0.50 percentage points for men and 0.17 percentage points for women. This effect is larger for white men with less than a BA (0.70 percentage points) and largest for minority men with less than a BA (1.01 percentage points). Geography is an obstacle to giving a causal interpretation to these results, especially since they were estimated in the midst of a large recession and recovery that generated considerable cross-sectional variation in local economic performance. We show that our results are not sensitive to most approaches to controlling for places experiencing either contemporaneous labor market shocks or persistently weak labor market conditions. We also present evidence on reverse causality, finding that a short-term unemployment shock did not increase the share of people abusing prescription opioids. Our estimates imply that prescription opioids can account for 44 percent of the realized national decrease in men's labor force participation between 2001 and 2015."

[Tobra]

Seems like this would be the expected findings.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Big research study just to prove what common sense already tells us. Being hopped up on painkillers isn't good for employment.

[kach22i]

We also present evidence on reverse causality, finding that a short-term unemployment shock did not increase the share of people abusing prescription opioids. Our estimates imply that prescription opioids can account for 44 percent of the realized national decrease in men's labor force participation between 2001 and 2015.

Unfit for Work
The startling rise of disability in America

In the past three decades, the number of Americans who are on disability has skyrocketed. The rise has come even as medical advances have allowed many more people to remain on the job, and new laws have banned workplace discrimination against the disabled. Every month, 14 million people now get a disability check from the government.

I believe opioid abuses parallel the increase in back pain disability cases.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I have several herniated discs, sciatica, and a fractured vertebrae. The no-kidding first treatment prescribed to me for my back pain was Loritabs. I took one dosage, HATED how I felt, threw the rest away and just started using OTC ibuprofen to knock down the pain level. Amazing though how the first reaction was to prescribe potentially addictive hardcore pain pills.

[john walker's workshop]

Me too. Had some hip pain and the doc prescribed oxycontin. Took one and tossed the rest. Rather deal with the pain.

[flatbutt]

If you can deal with and work through your pain then you are blessed. Not all pain is the same and some is so severe that it can't be worked through. An old argument that I've had more than once is the claim that "nothing hurts as much as XXXX!" A SIL of mine used that all the time referring to childbirth so I asked her if she'd ever been shot, or stabbed or broken a bone. She said no and so I said then how can you say you know the worst pain ever.

My point being that some pain is crippling and all we know is the pain we have. Yes doctors should be more careful but sometimes medication is the only way through.

[JavaBrewer]

I agree with Flat ^ however IMO the danger with Opiods is that people with real injury start having the expectation of being 100% pain free. As others here have detailed I generally can get away with OTC pain meds (IBuprofin) which get me to a 20-40% pain ratio so I can function. I have been prescribed Opiods and wow they are effective. Too effective.

[Jeff Higgins]

This looks to me like the classic "chicken or the egg" question, and this researcher had already decided which before undertaking his study. Far, far too many "objective" studies are done to simply support the researchers' assumptions, assumptions made before the study even begins. When researchers begin with the notion that "I'm going to prove 'x'...", they seldom prove themselves wrong.

So how about this - the increased opioid presence in these communities is due to the nature of the work that the people there perform. High risk, high injury, hard on the old body kind of work. Like logging, mining, oil field, natural gas field, farming, and that kind of thing. Their decreased workforce participation is due the injuries suffered at that work. In other words, their work is injuring them, rendering them unable to work, and the opioids showed up in answer to that - it's not the opioids that are keeping them from working. I think this study has some problems with causation...

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

Me too. Had some hip pain and the doc prescribed oxycontin. Took one and tossed the rest. Rather deal with the pain.

Yep, same thing here. After a bad car accident (drunk plowed into the side of my 944 with us both doing 60) I had alot of pain from a shattered pelvis, broken ribs, and foot. I took one oxycontin and just about vomited, and was going through hot/cold flashes, and thinking to myself that I could aspirate from not being able to roll to one side if it should occur. I swore off all other pain meds right then, and there, and toughed it through while learning how to walk again.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

This looks to me like the classic "chicken or the egg" question, and this researcher had already decided which before undertaking his study. Far, far too many "objective" studies are done to simply support the researchers' assumptions, assumptions made before the study even begins. When researchers begin with the notion that "I'm going to prove 'x'...", they seldom prove themselves wrong.

So how about this - the increased opioid presence in these communities is due to the nature of the work that the people there perform. High risk, high injury, hard on the old body kind of work. Like logging, mining, oil field, natural gas field, farming, and that kind of thing. Their decreased workforce participation is due the injuries suffered at that work. In other words, their work is injuring them, rendering them unable to work, and the opioids showed up in answer to that - it's not the opioids that are keeping them from working. I think this study has some problems with causation...

^this^

[group911@aol.co]

The flip side is I'm sure everybody here knows somebody addicted to opioids and is still working.
For a lot of people, missing work because of chronic pain isn't possible.
Big dilemma.

[id10t]

Wife is on pain management for both migraines and back issues, doesn't seem to affect her much unless she has to take a breakthrough dose and extra migraine meds at one time. When I had a tooth crack and ended up getting infected and then pulled, I would take 1/4 of one of her pills and be functional for coding ("the Ballmer Peak") but I wouldn't want to drive. Half a pill would knock me out for a 4 hour nap. Normally don't take narcotics myself - advil and tylenol did file when my wisdom teeth got pulled (very narced and gassed during procedure) and when I fell off my mower and cracked my elbow - like above, just can't stand the way they make me feel (and I've done my share of recreational chemistry).

So depending on what you do, work (and good paying work) is certainly possible. The issue is the educational levels, etc. required to have a job that doesn't do additional damage to your back (or whatever other reason you have for the narcotics) where being mildly stoned all the time won't get in the way of productivity or cause safety issues.

[group911@aol.co]

Haven't read an opioid label recently but pretty sure they say you shouldn't be operating any machinery. Eliminates a lot of jobs.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

The flip side is I'm sure everybody here knows somebody addicted to opioids and is still working.
For a lot of people, missing work because of chronic pain isn't possible.
Big dilemma.

There is a big difference between someone taking opioids for pain and someone addicted to opioids

[group911@aol.co]

Originally Posted by Tobra

There is a big difference between someone taking opioids for pain and someone addicted to opioids

Really? Try taking their meds away for a couple days

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by id10t

Wife is on pain management for both migraines and back issues, doesn't seem to affect her much unless she has to take a breakthrough dose and extra migraine meds at one time. When I had a tooth crack and ended up getting infected and then pulled, I would take 1/4 of one of her pills and be functional for coding ("the Ballmer Peak") but I wouldn't want to drive. Half a pill would knock me out for a 4 hour nap. Normally don't take narcotics myself - advil and tylenol did file when my wisdom teeth got pulled (very narced and gassed during procedure) and when I fell off my mower and cracked my elbow - like above, just can't stand the way they make me feel (and I've done my share of recreational chemistry).

So depending on what you do, work (and good paying work) is certainly possible. The issue is the educational levels, etc. required to have a job that doesn't do additional damage to your back (or whatever other reason you have for the narcotics) where being mildly stoned all the time won't get in the way of productivity or cause safety issues.

Your graphic perfectly describes me and bowling!

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

I agree with Flat ^ however IMO the danger with Opiods is that people with real injury start having the expectation of being 100% pain free. As others here have detailed I generally can get away with OTC pain meds (IBuprofin) which get me to a 20-40% pain ratio so I can function. I have been prescribed Opiods and wow they are effective. Too effective.

That's like the time I was experiencing panic attacks and they prescribed me clonozapam (sp?). One pill, and I knew right there it'd be my last. Too awesome to repeat and keep a job/wife/life. Made some lifestyle changes and have been better for some time now. (yes, all cases are different and I'm sure many need the stuff, this was just me)

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

Really? Try taking their meds away for a couple days

read up on it and get back to us when you know what you are talking about

[group911@aol.co]

Just a quick glance pretty much sums up my best friendShort Definition of Addiction:

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.