childhood

[tadd]

Does anyone think that childhood has gotten too long? And by that I mean what society considers acceptable.

It wasn't too long ago when America was colonies, at 14 you were assigned a trade and left home to go learn as an apprentice. By 18 you were a master and had your own shop, home, and most likely kids. Hell, the 40s and 50s weren't that long ago and by the end of high school you were out with a job and getting married setting up a home.

What has changed?

Is it just that it takes longer to 'grow up' due to college being considered 'normal'? Add on a few years to get a career started and welcome to 40. Is this driving kids being at home in their late 20s at this point?

[stevej37]

It wasn't that long ago that the primary worry for families was...'how are we going to feed the family?'
Now..the primary worry is 'when can I get the newest cell-phone?'

[Vipergrün]

Entitled children and coddling parents.

[Seahawk]

I'll probably get skewered, but I made my children work from a fairly young age, at those tasks they were able to do.

We called them chores when I was a kid and they had to be done. Zippy con zippy excuses.

I grew up on a small ranch, my wife on a farm...we bought this place so we could raise our children to know how to work, how to contribute.

What has changed is both a blessing and a pestilence: Life is so easy most places it is hard to grasp the pernicious change: That unless you work at it, there is nothing for most kids today "to do", little parental impetuous to challenge their kids to do the menial tasks that I had to do.

Everything works so kids don't have to...I have had friends ask me how I corralled my son's video game habit and how they could: Say no and then put them on the business end of a mower. Fire the landscaper.

Rant off.

[wdfifteen]

An education through at least high school is expected now, and the curricula are more demanding. All the kids I know worked through high school, mine did, my grandkids do, but these aren’t career jobs. Manufacturing and farming were the two big industries that you could move right out of 8th grade into a job, but they are both highly automated now. There isn’t so much demand for career grunt workers. Bottom line, preparing the average kid for life in our complicated world takes longer.

[vash]

back in the day..how long was the expected lifespan?

i would argue the modern childhood is proportional to the new extended lifespan. hell, i bet some pilgrim said about dog years, "this dog is 3, so thats like six human years"

back then a toothache would kill someone.

that 14 years old in the first example. yea..back then, running a team of mules, hammering out a horseshoe, those were careers.

now? not a single one of you wouldnt want your kid kicking ass, wielding a pen making deep deep six figures.

i'm proud of my 8+ years of college!!

[tadd]

Sea:
Wasn't bemoaning lack of taught responsibility. More about what we consider 'adult'.

I came into two adult kids (I was widower, no kids due to her disease). The eldest was at home till 26. Saved 30k and bought his own place and is gone. Youngest just turned 26 and is still at home doing an MFA (what he wants and he is paying).

I was gone before my 19th. I just don't see that drive to get out after high school. Maybe it is because there aren't 'real chores' and restrictive rules anymore. I know mine were doing laundry at 10 and keeping their bathroom/bedrooms, but that is a far cry from bailing and chucking hay or slopping hogs.

If I may ask, how old were yours when they left home. College doesn't count unless they paid.

[GH85Carrera]

I will let you know when I grow up. It is never too late for a happy childhood. it has been my mantra for most of my life.

I have no kids, so I am an absolute expert of raising children, and I have been raising myself for as long as I can remember.

[tadd]

Vash:
Funny you brought up age. If you correct for birth/early childhood, the age of death is actually well older than I would have ever expected.

So if you look at the age of death for those that are at least 15, it is like 67 going back to the middle ages. Kinda blew me away most mortality is with the very young.

https://www.infoplease.com/us/mortality/life-expectancy-age-1850-2011

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by vash

i'm proud of my 8+ years of college!!

As am I.

Both my kids went to college and graduated with two degrees, on time...they had to take business, the rest was up to them.

My daughter works in NYC and my son is finishing his second year of law school. They know how to work.

Quick Sea Story: In college I applied for a non-union waitering (sp?) job in Oakland. Great place, great money, etc. but I was a little light on experience.

The head guy was great, as was the maitre d': But, fully staffed, you're a great kid, we'll let you know, etc.

On the way out, there were some construction crap in the walk way...early afternoon and no one was around. They were both concerned.

"I'll take care of it".

So I moved maybe five armfuls of stuff to the trash and went on my way.

I started a week later.

Work becomes opportunity, opportunity takes work.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by tadd

If I may ask, how old were yours when they left home. College doesn't count unless they paid.

I did miss the mark a bit! Pet peeve of mind - sorry!

Son was on an ROTC scholarship, daughter a partial riding and academic ride.

He is paying for law school, she is paying for her part-time MBA. That was the deal.

I would argue (imagine that) that kids are becoming adults at the same age as in the past: They just don't get married to have kids.

[Dantilla]

Read a book a while ago, don't remember the title- It's around here somewhere- explaining the science/psychology behind "adolescence".

Used to be childhood>adulthood.
Then childhood>short adolescence>adulthood
And now the period of adolescence is getting longer.

Your premise is correct. I'd have to dig out the book to give its reasons why.

[Aerkuld]

I agree to a point. There seems to be a trend among 'kids' of relying on parents for far too long. But I don't know whether it's fair to say that means childhood is too long, and I actually wonder whether kids have a decent shot at childhood at all. By which I mean, is there enough? It seems kids are expected to grow up too quickly in some ways, which holds them back in others. Do kids really have that much carefree time to themselves? Time to get bored, invent things to keep themselves busy? Modern childhood seems to be way over stimulated, constantly busy, technology focused, with the expectation of instant gratification. Does this lead to a lack of confidence that they can do things by themselves? I wonder whether kids need more time to actually be children.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

"I'll take care of it".

So I moved maybe five armfuls of stuff to the trash and went on my way.

I started a week later.

You took a monkey off their back with a smile.

[jyl]

Back to the OP, I think the occupations that pay enough for the young person to be on his or her own, buying a house, starting a family, now tend to require longer education.

In the 1940s and 1950s a guy could go to work as a butcher or similar blue collar job and make enough to buy a modest house and raise a family. Maybe not in a big city, but in a small town. That's what my father in law did. WW2 Navy vet, Okinawa vet, came home, became a butcher, married his high school sweetie, bought a house (maybe some GI benefits?), started a very small commercial cleaning company, raised six kids by cleaning stores and restaurants. The kids helped, my wife grew up cleaning toilets.

Today that butcher maybe makes enough to rent an apartment, at least in a city and that's where more of the population lives today, cities. And if you don't have a "trade", but are just working entry level jobs, just making enough to rent more than a room can be tough.

We read a lot about why kids should become tradesmen and I agree that's the right path for many, but the trades require more training and experience now too.

Figure the math. $15/hour (which is well more than minimum wage most places) for 50 hours/wk (which you won't get many places, maybe need to stitch together two jobs) and 50 weeks/yr is $37,500. 40% of that gets you about $1,250/mo for rent, utilities. In Portland that's a low end one bedroom apartment. So it's doable but are you really in a position to start cranking out kids? Some do but you can see why many would wait.

There is also less interest, for other reasons, in getting married early and having kids right away. Average age at first child is getting older, even among those with plenty of money. That's normal, all countries go through that as they become more economically developed, and childbirth rate also declines.

Just because the kid is going to be a student for a long time doesn't mean they don't know how to work. My daughter started working about 14 y/o in the high school cafeteria, the next year she stayed working 6 days/wk 12 hours/day in the kitchen washing dishes at a summer camp. She's worked there every summer since, became a cook then supervisor, head of kitchen, head of meal service, now she manages the whole food operation with 20 staff and a substantial budget, still cranking 12 hour days. Then she goes back to college and pulls all nighters in the studio and writing (art + journalism degrees, will also get her BFA next year after 5 years of school). I know, art degree, but it is what you make of it. I know a young lady who took her art MFA to San Francisco and made $100K/yr (admittedly that's not much, there), now is in New York running some sort of creative company. My son is taking a gap year, he's getting plenty of chill time but also got his EMT certificate, is dancing professionally, and starts college next year to study architecture which is a 5 year program. He hopes to work as an EMT during school to help pay for it. They'll both be 30 by the time they become the homeowning-parent types - if they ever do - but they'll also probably live 10-20 years longer than people did in the 1940s and 50s and have the chance to be working well into their seventies, if they need/want to.

TL-DR its just tough for young folks today, not as in physical labor tough, but in figuring out how to put together enough earnings to thrive without going to college and maybe beyond.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

I agree to a point. There seems to be a trend among 'kids' of relying on parents for far too long. But I don't know whether it's fair to say that means childhood is too long, and I actually wonder whether kids have a decent shot at childhood at all. By which I mean, is there enough? It seems kids are expected to grow up too quickly in some ways, which holds them back in others. Do kids really have that much carefree time to themselves? Time to get bored, invent things to keep themselves busy? Modern childhood seems to be way over stimulated, constantly busy, technology focused, with the expectation of instant gratification. Does this lead to a lack of confidence that they can do things by themselves? I wonder whether kids need more time to actually be children.

These we my thoughts exactly

[Chocaholic]

I see it differently. You're never too old to have a good childhood.

Ha!

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by jyl

We read a lot about why kids should become tradesmen and I agree that's the right path for many, but the trades require more training and experience now too.

In the 70's I was in Vo-Tech in later high school years. They let us out to work at noon and I did.

I had a fruitful career as a machinist right out of high school. Average house in a small town, foolishly a marriage, yet lived pretty large.

This opportunity is not available today.

[LWJ]

While I do think children should work, I also make a very big point of having my children exploit the opportunity that is their childhood.

Meaning, have some fun. Play. Enjoy.

There will be plenty of work down the road.

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by LWJ

While I do think children should work, I also make a very big point of having my children exploit the opportunity that is their childhood.

Meaning, have some fun. Play. Enjoy.

There will be plenty of work down the road.

Exactly. Ours are not depression-era offspring like we were. The environment has changed profoundly.