Big Boy 4014 First Test Run

[Sooner or later]

Wonderful!

Can't wait to see them.

[widebody911]

My question is why did they still have the diesel pushing?

[GO DAWG GO]

They are using it for dynamic braking and electrical power for the passenger cars.
Both engineers Ed and Ted told me the double head steamers have run away power at certain throttle settings and they use the dynamic brakes to govern them..

[Jolly Amaranto]

For those who are wondering what "dynamic" braking is, it is kind of like a hybrid automobile. The motors that drive the wheels normally are switched over to producing current instead of using it. Instead of charging batteries however, the current is routed through big resistor grids enclosed on the top of the locomotive where fans blow air through them to cool them off.

[Jeff Higgins]

Here is the same locomotive with and without dynamic brakes. This is the old EMD SD45.

With dynamic brakes:



Without dynamic brakes:



You can clearly see the additional radiators in the center of the long hood on the version with the dynamic brakes. There are a couple of big fans on the top of the hood directly above them as well - you can kind of see them, the big round housings. These things generate a lot of heat. Kind of surprising that, in this day and age, no effort is made to recover that energy.

[Jims5543]

My buddy just snapped a pic of this one in Scranton PA, is this a cousin to the 4014?

[Jeff Higgins]

Yes it is, apparently one of eight remaining.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_4012

[Jolly Amaranto]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

These things generate a lot of heat. Kind of surprising that, in this day and age, no effort is made to recover that energy.

Electric locomotives that pull power from a third rail or from overhead wires often do. They just feed the current back into the grid. However, a standard diesel electric road locomotive can not do that. They do not have a large battery capacity.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Yes it is, apparently one of eight remaining.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_4012

Thanks for the info, my buddy is a Pilot by trade was killing time in a train yard in Scranton today, knew that the 4012 was something special just by looking at it and took a pic.

I passed that wiki article on to him.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Jolly Amaranto

Electric locomotives that pull power from a third rail or from overhead wires often do. They just feed the current back into the grid. However, a standard diesel electric road locomotive can not do that. They do not have a large battery capacity.

There is a lot of unused space under that long hood. One would think if there is room on a car to add meaningful battery capacity for regenerative power storage, there would certainly be plenty on a locomotive. There is just no incentive to do so.

In the same vein, most folks would be surprised to learn that there are absolutely no emissions standards for locomotives. My God do these things ever belch pollutants. Granted, their emissions per ton-mile are a fraction that of over the road trucks, but it is rather surprising that they are completely unregulated. Ocean going vessels are even worse, by the way. I wonder how something like a Big Boy would measure up by today's standards.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by GO DAWG GO

They are using it for dynamic braking and electrical power for the passenger cars....

I don't think it's for electrical power... there is a separate power car in the consist....

It's definitely there for emergencies in case of a failure of one or both of the steamers. They cannot leave the train just sitting and blocking the line.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

There is a lot of unused space under that long hood. One would think if there is room on a car to add meaningful battery capacity for regenerative power storage, there would certainly be plenty on a locomotive. There is just no incentive to do so.

In the same vein, most folks would be surprised to learn that there are absolutely no emissions standards for locomotives. My God do these things ever belch pollutants. Granted, their emissions per ton-mile are a fraction that of over the road trucks, but it is rather surprising that they are completely unregulated. Ocean going vessels are even worse, by the way. I wonder how something like a Big Boy would measure up by today's standards.

If there were powers losses to be gained back, wouldn't they be doing it?

It is likely the situations where these brakes are used are such intense spikes that battery tech of the time couldn't handle it without going kaboom.

Then those batteries have to hauled up the hills.

Imagine the energy going to a flywheel, braking, for a train, on a steep downgrade. How heavy, how fast, would that flywheel need to be?

[Jolly Amaranto]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

In the same vein, most folks would be surprised to learn that there are absolutely no emissions standards for locomotives. My God do these things ever belch pollutants. Granted, their emissions per ton-mile are a fraction that of over the road trucks, but it is rather surprising that they are completely unregulated.

New railroad locomotives are subject to Tier 4 standards.
"Currently, Tier 4 diesel engine standards are the strictest EPA emissions requirement for off-highway diesel engines. This requirement regulates the amount of particulate matter (PM), or black soot, and nitrogen oxides (NOx) that can be emitted from an off-highway diesel engine.

Based on an engine’s horsepower rating, Tier 4 requirements were phased in starting in 2008. By the time final Tier 4 regulations were fully implemented in 2015, PM and NOx emissions had been reduced 99% compared to 1996 levels."

[flatbutt]

Over 1 million pounds!!

[GO DAWG GO]

Just 600 tons...😀 all my photos are 8 megs and this site.. no ..nada! Tomorrow I will process the shots for viewing..

[tcar]

Originally Posted by GO DAWG GO

Just 600 tons...

That's 1.2 million pounds....

[piscator]

Thanks to everyone! I know nothing about 'choo choos' and this discussion is fascinating!

One question, if I may. Is there anything for the Engineer to DO on a modern train? With all the automation available today, I'd imagine he has a lot of time to play Backgammon! Must be quite a change from those movie days, when the Engineer's impassioned turn on a valve, with a big wrench, stopped the train from plunging into some gorge where the bridge is out; and all the passengers are saved!

[GO DAWG GO]

Here are some pictures taken at Ogden station!






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[Scott Douglas]

Thanks for sharing your pictures with those of us that couldn't be there.
Very cool mechanical beast!

[Jolly Amaranto]

Originally Posted by piscator

Thanks to everyone! I know nothing about 'choo choos' and this discussion is fascinating!

One question, if I may. Is there anything for the Engineer to DO on a modern train? With all the automation available today, I'd imagine he has a lot of time to play Backgammon! Must be quite a change from those movie days, when the Engineer's impassioned turn on a valve, with a big wrench, stopped the train from plunging into some gorge where the bridge is out; and all the passengers are saved!

Oh yes, they have plenty to do. Although the autonomous driver-less technology could be applied, and has been in some applications like a commuter rail system in Vancouver, BC, there is a lot of push-back in the industry. The feeling is that a human on board has a better grasp on what to do in an emergency like a derailment or a grade crossing collision. There is a lot going on when a train is running. The crew is in contact with the dispatcher who organizes the traffic and gives the crew authority to move into different blocks of track. This can be done over the radio along with the use of signal lights that are track side. In some cases they still use old technology like paper orders handed up the crew from track side. Each track route has different challenges and nuances that the crew has to be familiar with and checked out on. If a train is diverted to another railroad if there is a track problem, a local train crew or sometimes a "pilot" who is checked out on that line has to run the train. Basic locomotive operation as well as train handling can be tricky. The wrong brake application can lead to broken couplers and or damaged loads. Some day it may come but there is a lot to be worked out yet.