GF learned a hard lesson today - PPI
 

A couple years ago she bought a '97 Dodge Dakota 4x4. Nice looking truck.
I advised getting a PPI on it. "But it's pristine" she insisted. And it ran pretty well.

Pretty quickly, the low oil pressure problem became apparent. Once warmed up, pressure would drop to nothing. We replaced the pressure sensor because it was the least expensive thing to start with. Nope.

She drove it rarely, due to that.

"Rod bearings" I tried to tell her.
"Oil pump" she insisted.

A couple weeks ago, she sold her 2010 Tiguan to CarMax, figuring she'd put it towards getting a new oil pump installed. Nevermind that the stealership she bought it from already supposedly put a new pump in it for her @$400 as a courtesy. Which didn't help. We don't think they actually did that.
The Tiguan was on it's third water pump in just 75,000 miles... and throwing "too lean at idle" codes. And carbon buildup, misfire codes. And had melted a fuse block in 2015. She was done with it...Carmax gave her $5k.

Several months ago she inquired with a local place. Guy looked at the dipstick and showed her the glitter. Which she could not see...

I also showed her metal specs a few weeks ago.

Today she learned the truth. It lived a hard life, despite being "pristine"
Rod bearings. And other issues. New engine needed.

Hopefully she's figured out that a PPI is necessary.

I feel terrible for her. :(

so terrible you had to tell us how RIGHT you were and dumb she is. she needs another friend.

Or he is just relating a cautionary tale that is applicable to most of us, being car guys.

How would a PPI have discovered a looming low oil pressure situation? Would they have put a gauge on it? Pulled the pan to look at the bearings? It seems it would have to have been a particularly thorough PPI to reveal a future problem.

If an oil pump only costs $400 and a junkyard engine installed costs $2000 there only has to be a >20% chance it's the oil pump to make it a smart bet.

Obviously you have to estimate that probability through knowledge, experience and research and I can't imagine a scenario where the oil pump itself would be making metal 1 out of 5 times.

I have a personal rule regarding PPI's under 10K no PPI, over then get one.

A quick google search suggests a 97 Dakota runs about $2500.

I would not have paid for a PPI on that Truck.

Sound like she rolled the dice and lost. She can either go into that one for more money, or sell it off and try again.

Here is something she can try, she really has nothing to lose at this point.

I purchased a 1978 Austin Mini years ago for over 10K and broke my rule. I did not get a PPI because the seller was a "good guy" on a car forum. In reality he played stupid and knew he was unloading a bad purchase on me. Then engine was bad and suffered from low oil pressure.

I put in 20w50 Castrol GTX motor oil replacing 1 quart with a quart of Lucas Oil Stabilizer.

The oil pressure was actually a little higher and I drove the damn thing for 3 years like that. I always expected the engine to let go and it never did. I have it pulled now and have a fresher engine swapped in, I am looking forward to tearing it down and seeing all that is wrong inside. It is a 1290 Motor that pulled like a raped ape, so I want to rebuild it and put in back in.

It was an immediate problem, once fully warmed up at idle.

Right at 10k. I've been suggesting heavier oil. She's running 10-30 in it, I think. I run 2050 in all mine, save for my Saturn.

They could be it. Beygon just likes to insult and berate people he hates. He can feel free to ignore this cautionary tale.

One thing a lot of people continually overlook besides the PPI, is a extended test drive. Something like 15 or more miles, get things hot. Most things like the OP's problem would have showed

lots of people have differences with their significant other but they don't berate them here, you, with all your expertise could have looked it over, helped her out.

http://westfieldcomics.com/blog/wp-c...Sgt.-Hulka.jpg

We all tell stories here whether they are about stupid stuff that we've done or stupid stuff that a friend has done or stupid stuff that strangers have done.

Sounds to me like the test drive was insufficient. She would have seen the issue if she drove it enough to warm it up. With a car purchase, it's too easy to walk and find something else if anything doesn't look/feel/sound/smell right. I don't think I'd have done a PPI for a $10k appliance, but then I'm either good or lucky or both about test-driving and buying cars. (except that one time)

But, some folks can only learn the hard way.

Ouch, 10w30 with low pressure?

OK, yeah, now that I think about it, when I was young and dumb, I once let my emotions and laziness get the best of me and paid the price. I went to look at a '69 Buick Riviera. The interior was beautiful and custom. The guy worked at an upholstery shop and had done the whole thing. The exterior was decent original paint (still shiny) and absolutely no rust anywhere. When I went to check out the car, I took a mechanical oil pressure gauge with the intention of checking it. It's the ONLY time I've ever taken a gauge or even felt the need to take a gauge. THe car looked so nice and started up and rain smoothly and the port for the oil pressure sender was in a weird location that was going to be a pain to work with so I decided to skip it. Yeah, the car got me home and then around to a few friends places and almost back home and died. Spun bearings and when I pulled the motor and dropped the oil pan, there was what appeared to be a half a dozen sets of various gaskets in the bottom of the pan that had clogged the pickup. I was poor and had spent all of my extra money on that car. I had a good time rebuilding the motor but did something else stupid in the process. I got disgusted and sold the car to a guy for $100. He got a steal of a deal because I had about $2-3k worth of parts in the thing and it only required a couple/few hours to get it running. My roommate tried to get me to get it running a few times, but I was just done with it. I made a few mistakes on that car, but they were educational. It worked out for the best in the long run, though.

I would swap in some 20/50 and a quart of Lucas, it sounds like the engine is done, maybe stave off the inevitable?

My son just purchased a 2007 WRX STI, I know nothing about them, he had been researching for about a year and it was the car he wanted.

He asked me to take look at it, test drive it etc.. I told him I have no idea what to look for on them but I can give my opinion on the basic overall condition of it.

It drove nice, we took it on a 10 mile loop, wish now we drove it much further.

It has a gas tank pressure problem, when ever you put gas it in it takes about 5-10 minutes to recover and run right. Something we could have flushed out on the test drive if we put a splash in. You are always learning.

2 weeks after he had it home it started throwing engine codes.

We tracked it down to a ripped intake boot after the MAF. We thought we fixed it, we didn't.

The brake booster was bad too...

80K miles on this thing all all these problems we are chasing around.

I am not impressed with Subaru "reliability". He has been driving my E21 and my E30 more than that damn car in its first 2 months we owned it.

As I start to dig into this brand and this model (I am getting pretty knowledgeable about them now) there is a laundry list of things that fail on these cars without warning and at what I call low miles for a Jap car.

When I first test drove it I was impressed, thinking maybe I will look for one.

I am cured. It is no Toyota, that is for sure.

Wolf..do you think she will go for the motor replacement? (maybe i missed it above, but i started scanning after Bey chimed in)

that vehicle cant be worth it to do a motor replacement no? $4k? maybe?

i wish her luck. they gave me a dodge truck of that same vintage when i was first hired. man, it was a gas hog!!

I hate it when I give good honest auto advice , they do not take it and, then start to have problems . My buddy who is financially challenged , really hard on vehicles, and does zero maintenance , would not listen to me that a $2500.00 BMW was a bad move. I told him that he simply cannot afford maintenance
One year later, it sits in his yard broken down. Ive fixed it twice for free

Engine with low hot pressure is noisy, seems to run hot and flickers dummy light on dash. They also don't run as strong as they should.

A low pressure situation would've been noticed simply by driving it for a bit.

If it was otherwise clean and straight I'd go the junkyard engine route and learn my lesson on buying cars.

No use throwing good money after bad ditching the truck busted.

rjp

I've got just what that truck needs:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1558476785.JPG

Right, lots of folks would sell a vehicle like that for pennies and then someone with some time and skill and not a lot of money will swap in a junkyard motor for more pennies and have a good vehicle. At least, that's how it would work around here. Most likely it would be someone Hispanic who would buy it and fix it up.

Same here. Get as cheap a boneyard engine as you can find. Pop it in... and move it down the road.

Charitable donation. Take a nice deduction and start over.

If that is a 4.7, they are really hard to come by used , and pretty expensive . Last time I checked anyhow .

This should have been a red flag.

Wolfe I think you are a little too trusting by not having a PPI done. You should have insisted on having a PPI done before committing. Some assertiveness is required especially in the area of car buying. Wifey will thank you.

PPI does not guarantee that you will find everything that is wrong but loads it in your and your wife's favor. :)

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Gotta do the math. Depends on the vehicle.

Popping it in is a long or expensive process on a truck that old. Skanky fasteners, etc.

I say nut up and buy the best engine you can find IF the truck is worthy.

Then change the oil lots and lots.

Yea.. might have been a five minute drive at most. I remember being on it with her, it was pretty short, no freeway, etc.




5.2 liter.

Except it isn't noisy... except for a 2-second "dtdtd" noise right at start-up, which I don't recall what she seems to think it was. And runs fairly strong, too.

Have I ever claimed to be an automotive expert? Nope. Guitar expert, yes. Auto mechanics expert, nope.


Beyond my capabilities. Couple days? Maybe with a loaded shop, lift, and all that. Took me two weeks to finish my 968 door handle repairs. I'm not left with a lot of time to do these things. It wasn't a pump issue to begin with.

To me, yes. She owns two. :confused::eek:


Oh.. I have never bought a car without a PPI first. I did't buy it, and she didn't want to pay for one, no matter how much I insisted.



To answer other questions, yea, the truck is straight and in overall good condition, body-wise. She'll think on it a bit and figure out what she wants to do.
She might run heavier oil in it till it takes a puke, then replace the engine. Took her shop guy finally saying something when we picked it up today before she'd believe that heavier oil will improve oil pressure,..

Plus two young pals that know the ins and outs.

Its a hard one week job with a lift first time solo and tools, etc., unless you are a semi-pro.

However, lots of peeps will change an engine out way cheaper than you think. YOU get the engine or approve what they purchase.

Oh heck, if it is a 318, they run forever and should be cheap and easy to find one . Im surprised to hear you have a bottom end out

On the newer (mid 2000's) 3.7's I have seen crank thrust bearings chewed to where you can move the crank forwards and backwards with a pry bar with oil pan off.

They still run with reduced oil pressure but the clock is running towards engine seize

Why would you replace an engine because of low oil pressure? It still runs fine no rod knock. It will probably last another 20k miles. Its still getting oil. My brother had a 69 nova with no oil pressure it would even lock up on rare occasions around a hard corner. Wait 5 minutes start it up and go again he drove it about 8 years like that.

Friends don't let friends buy Dodge's, I tried to talk a friend from buying one years ago he replaced lots of parts soon after.

Did you try a proper mechanical gauge on it? There are some other websites with people having same issue some saying it is the electronic's issue.

(I'm extremely ashamed to forget his name at the moment)
but
Lubemaster started an oil analysis business, which should be a nationwide standard for PPIs.

So, apparently that 2-second "dtdtd" noise during startup IS a rod knock, which I have suspected for quite a awhile. And since the truck has only had about 500 miles put on it since it was bought, she never mentioned anything to me about any knocking noise... but apparently it's there, although not very loud. Yet.

Tell me about it...:rolleyes:

Yea, we did. And two oil pressure sending units... first one replaced at home, and that one replaced when she started having her shop investigate the cause of the low oil pressure.

I convinced her that analysis was a good idea a few months back. We've got an oil analysis kit here that's been waiting for her to decide it's time to do it. Been here for a couple months...
Thinking about using it for my 911, since I don't ever see that actually happening.

I did a serious double-take when I saw your photo! My parents gave me this when I turned 16 (or maybe 15, but I think 16). I gave it to my son several years ago (8-10, I tihnk), and he went through some "issues" so I thought it was gone forever, but he found it again and sent me this pic the other day.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1558484247.jpg

I figured it was the only way to convince her rod bearings... and prepare her for what happens next.

I was in that situation with a Mazda 4 cylinder B2600. In a few hours, I dropped the pan and replaced rod bearings. Still Still running strong when I sold it a few years later........

On your Dakota going South, can you drop the pan w/o pulling the engine?

Doubtful.

Dude, about the best you are going to be able to do is feel bad for her. Whatever you do, don't remind her that you warned her before she got into this deal, better to vent your spleen here.

Run the 20W50 until it blows up, make sure you have Triple A or something so you can get it towed home from wherever it finally craps itself.

You don’t need to do a PPI if you do a little research first. Every vehicle has a forum, check it out and find out the issues. If not motivated to do that, spend a couple of bucks on a Consumer Reports Buyers Guide and look up how they rate. All black circles are not a good sign.

The perennial worst (not recommended by owners, because who knows better than them) are Fiat, Dodge, Range/Land Rover products. I know there are those who dis CR, but I have never been disappointed by their recommended buys.

That said I didn’t get PPIs on my last two purchases because both had excellent reviews, were low mileage, good service history and low miles. Neither has let me down.

I did it to my wife's 2006 Mazda3, which had 2 rods oil starved. Now, *I* starved them doing donuts in a gravel parkinglot, but *she* was the one that let the oil go down 3 quarts...

In fact, I didn't just SPIN the rod bearings, I actually had one of them invert...one half of the bearing crammed itself under the other half. I ain't never seen anything like that before...

Tossed some new bearings in (no measuring, just put them in), buttoned it up and it's driven (somewhat noisily) EVERY DAY for 2.5 years. It's now my DD, and shows no signs of damage (other than the noise...clunk clunk clunk...)

I've looked at it, and I think I recall that crossmembers have to come out. I's more that I'd be comfortable with, for sure.


No kidding. I haven't, but she seems to have figured it out on her own that a PPI is a necessity.

Funny thing is, this same dealer called a couple weeks ago wanting her to trade it in on something else, seems they had someone else looking for one just like it. She let 'em have it and explained she was done with them, and in no case would she deal with them again.
This dealer has been around for decades. 4 star Google reviews, but loaded with tales just like ours.. "lasted 500 miles..." "1000 miles...." "Steering went out" etc. Don't know how they've lasted this long.