Women in the Workplace

[Superman]

I have four sisters, no brothers. I'm probably more respectful of women than most guys. My sisters are all professional people, good at what they do. Over the years I have noticed women getting into management positions, more and more.

I have known some women in clerical positions who practically ran the programs their bosses were supposed to run, while also doing IT and other projects on the side. As they say, Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did....backwards in high heels.

Today, I notice some female senior leadership who seem to be doing the same thing there. Getting the job done. Attending to the details while keeping the destination in sight. Hand on the rudder, directing crew, getting us where we want to go.

I think women are taking over, and that seems to be working. When it happens. We all know that women are more aggressive than men.* We know their brains can focus on more than one thing at a time. This is my point. There are also great men out there, but I think we've got some stiff competition.

Discuss.


* Those of you who do not yet know this, pay closer attention.

[HardDrive]

I have never had a problem with women in the workplace. I don't think I am particularly forward thinking either.

I treat this an issue of the past. But I must say, I understand that there are men out there who have some kind of creepy women issues that seem to make a big deal out of it.

[Jeff Higgins]

One of my former coworkers, a lady whom I respected a great deal, co-authored one of the definitive studies on what they call "The Queen Bee Syndrome". It's worth spending some time studying this material. My own wife, who was trained as a nurse and rose to the position of managing the nursing staff of the most prominent asthma/allergy practice in the state read this and said, simply, "hell yeah". It's a very real issue amongst professional women, to which none of us guys are ever exposed.

I know I am going to come across as the proverbial chauvinist pig, but I'll put this out there anyways: In 34 years as an engineer in a pretty demanding profession, I never once met a competent woman engineer. Oh, don't get me wrong - plenty were "book smart" and could talk the talk - but not a one could walk the walk, under field conditions, where they had to make something work. Not a one of them grew up playing with Erector Sets, wrenching on their own bikes or other mechanical objects, not a one had any mechanical hobbies. You know, the grease under their fingernails and the skinned or bruised knuckles. In other words, not a one of them had developed the least little bit of mechanical intuition whatsoever.

Now, I understand I was in a unique field. Management is likely quite different. All I can say, however, from my admittedly tiny little professional knothole, is I never met one that could do the same job the men I was surrounded with could do pretty much intuitively. Not one.

There are, of course, areas in which women excel head and shoulders over men. No doubt about it. And these are by no means "lesser" (or better) vocations, just different. Anyone who denies the different sexes have different talents is, well, simply in denial. We are not only physically different, but mentally and emotionally as well. I cannot believe it's reached the point where stating these obvious facts will put me in hot water but, alas, that's the world in which we live. There should be no "competition" - just cooperation borne through acknowledgment and acceptance of one another's strengths and weaknesses. I'm afraid that's not the world in which we live, however. Flame away...

There are, of course, exceptions to everything. Examples of one do not, however, prove a damn thing...

[Baz]

I've often felt they are a different species all together than males.

Doesn't mean they are not good at certain things.

[RKDinOKC]

Just so they aren't idiots like Ocasio-Idiot.

[Superman]

That makes sense, Jeff. I would not expect a woman to excel in your craft. In my experience, women managers (outside engineering) have their eye on a great many moving (administrative) pieces and are uniquely qualified to get them moving in parallel. From what I am seeing, increasingly, in general managerial fields, women can certainly be high performers. There is a women in particular in my organization. I don't know how smart she is, but she's smarter than I am. And most folks (outside PARF) think I'm smart, believe it or not. Given her span of control now and her performance, I really have no idea what her full capabilities are.

I think some guys are going to get their asses kicked. Do not underestimate women.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by RKDinOKC

Just so they aren't idiots like Ocasio-Idiot.

Let's see if we can avoid forcing the moderators to move this thread, shall we?

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Baz

I've often felt they are a different species all together than males.

Yes they are. They run our homes. And our schools and hospitals. Increasingly, our House of Representatives.

[john70t]

I know a couple extremely gifted women who can do everything.
They tell chefs how to cook the food and me how to fix the car and pilots how to fly the airplane.

Motivation is key, but direction is also necessary.
That requires experience and balanced consideration and sometimes moving back to go forward.
Else, doggy just chases its tail on command very fast.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Superman

That makes sense, Jeff. I would not expect a woman to excel in your craft. In my experience, women managers (outside engineering) have their eye on a great many moving (administrative) pieces and are uniquely qualified to get them moving in parallel. From what I am seeing, increasingly, in general managerial fields, women can certainly be high performers. There is a women in particular in my organization. I don't know how smart she is, but she's smarter than I am. And most folks (outside PARF) think I'm smart, believe it or not. Given her span of control now and her performance, I really have no idea what her full capabilities are.

I think some guys are going to get their asses kicked. Do not underestimate women.

Agreed. I think one of the areas in which women excel is in the organization of many interwoven, complex operations. Conversely, some of the best engineers I ever worked with are also some of the most scattered, disorganized people I have ever met.

And no, I'm sorry, Supe - you are not nearly as smart as you think you are. You have clearly spent too much time hanging out with me, which is a sure fired way to make just about anyone feel smarter...

[Tobra]

Anyone who ever worked in a hospital could have told you this stuff a long time ago.

The ability to effectively use the contributions of women is the greatest advantage western civilization has in the existential struggle with the east. If they ever stop treating their women like chattel, we will be in real trouble. Smartest people I have known have all been women.

[Rusty Heap]

jeff jeff jeff

[wdfifteen]

Engineers work in all sorts of capacities.
The lab complex I worked in had several female engineers. This was a basic research facility, where a background in Erector sets wouldn't be much use. They couldn't change a tire (neither could some of the men) but they knew how to calculate the 3rd root of a number when they needed to. In my capacity as the "hands on" engineer in the same group, I never had occasion to need to know that much math.
As an employer I had more trouble with female employees than the males by a factor of - a lot. Good God the crap they came up with to whine about ...

[ckelly78z]

My wife would be known as a "queen bee", she tends to take on more responsability than she is capable of handling, but just continue's working late into the night to prevent looking like she is incapable of getting it done. I don't know how she will ever retire, and slow down.

After 17 years on the job, as a CAD engineer with a home building company, she also does all the site work, contractor handling, arranging service work, multiple client finance meetings, and generally running the business office.

Last year her boss was finally convinced to pay her a straight amount without all of the unachievable "dangling carrots" for incentives. After doing taxes this year, we discovered that she made $37,000 more than she did in 2017...woohoo !

[onewhippedpuppy]

No offense intended but I’ll vote this “least insightful thread of the year”. So far at least. Seems like it would be a better fit in 1959.

[oldE]

"I have known some women in clerical positions who practically ran the programs their bosses were supposed to run, while also doing IT and other projects on the side. As they say, Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did....backwards in high heels. "

My eldest brother did some temping for his friend's transport firm a couple of decades ago. Part of the summer was filling in for his buddy when that guy went on vacation. His accounting of that period went something like:

"The only time I did anything for those two weeks was when dome dumb arse would call in and not like what Molly told him. She would put the fool on hold, tell me what to say and pass him on to me. I would repeat what Molly said. She ran the office. I was just the muscle. It was great."

I saw the same thing in the regional office of the local power utility. Anyone who thought Ruth didn't actually run the area was in for a rude awakening. They should have just given her a $20k raise and been done with it.

Best
Les

[smadsen]

If you watch the movies, Ginger Rogers steps aside when Fred goes acapella.

[rfuerst911sc]

I am now retired but worked full time from age 15 to 60 . The majority of my work life ( 26 years ) was with the nations largest defense contractor . That was spread across NY , Fl. and Georgia so a pretty good cross section of society . I worked with capable folks that were male and female , white and black and everything in between . Some were great some were useless . I could have cared less if you wore a bra/skirt , boxers/tee shirt or whatever I cared about getting the job done ! If the person was capable then welcome to the team . If the person was ONLY hired because of gender or skin color but couldn't tie their shoes you were worthless to the team . It really is that simple .

A motivated team ALL pulling in the same direction are almost unstoppable regardless of gender . But that team needs good communication and motivation from a strong leader . And a good leader will recognize each team members strengths and weaknesses and pull the best out of everyone . My wife worked 30 years in the same industry and I know for a fact she enhanced every team she was a part of . It's not about gender it's about qualifications for the job .

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

No offense intended but I’ll vote this “least insightful thread of the year”. So far at least. Seems like it would be a better fit in 1959.

No kidding....

I worked along side female super techies (a system programmer - smokin hawt ), below an IT director (one of the best I ever had), and a female CEO who sucked imo.....she made 15 million the year after she "fired me".... and drove a nicer Porsche too

Most of this is true....

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

I am now retired but worked full time from age 15 to 60 . The majority of my work life ( 26 years ) was with the nations largest defense contractor . That was spread across NY , Fl. and Georgia so a pretty good cross section of society . I worked with capable folks that were male and female , white and black and everything in between . Some were great some were useless . I could have cared less if you wore a bra/skirt , boxers/tee shirt or whatever I cared about getting the job done ! If the person was capable then welcome to the team . If the person was ONLY hired because of gender or skin color but couldn't tie their shoes you were worthless to the team . It really is that simple .

A motivated team ALL pulling in the same direction are almost unstoppable regardless of gender . But that team needs good communication and motivation from a strong leader . And a good leader will recognize each team members strengths and weaknesses and pull the best out of everyone . My wife worked 30 years in the same industry and I know for a fact she enhanced every team she was a part of . It's not about gender it's about qualifications for the job .

^^^ yep, didn't read this before my last post.....spot on!