SWAT on the Range Today

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by DavidI

Jeff, that is outstanding that your range offers its use to the agencies! For any shooter, whether SWAT, military, civilian, etc. not to wear hearing protection on a live range is absolutely insane. Before jumping to conclusions, were they wearing custom inserts that you did not see? I have both types and use either one depending on what I am shooting.

I am the head of the Weapons Training Unit for my Department and would have escorted them off the range without exception. I also extend this ability to any of my firearms instructors. No exceptions!

Thank you for what you do my friend, David

Nope, no custom inserts - they had muffs hanging around their necks. Coupled with their reaction to my shot, it was pretty clear they had gotten the full effect.

These guys all clearly have some background in all of this. Likely from being in some branch of the service, in addition to have risen to the rank of not only their respective department's SWAT units, but additionally being in some sort of a training or squad leadership capacity in those units.

Their behavior is, of course, being documented back to their departments in the form of having failed our training, which denies them access to our range. They will have to come back and try again. Or, maybe more likely, their departments will have to send someone else back to try again. As for now, their departments have no access until they can send someone who will pass. I would hope that is not taken lightly by their superiors.

We love providing access to law enforcement at our range. We recognize that there are not very many options in our increasingly urban area. That, and the politics of our area tend to be a little hard on gun ranges, particularly outdoor ranges. Even more so with ranges that use up the footprint required to provide a 300 yard rifle range.

To be honest, out motivations are not entirely altruistic. It's also a matter of self preservation. We came within the proverbial "RCH" of being "eminent domained" into a regional, multi-county sewage treatment plant (otherwise known as a "turd farm") just over a decade ago. The only outdoor, multi discipline, long range shooting facility in a multi-county area, and local politicians were going to use the need of this new turd farm as an excuse to shut us down and seize our land.

Well, our many friends in law enforcement stepped in and saved the day. They made it clear to the politicians that they, themselves, had nowhere else to train. That is what put us over the top and saved our range. Politicians, even those who tout "gun safety" (while passing all manner of nuisance law that accomplishes anything but), were eager to shut down the only safe, controlled, supervised environment in a three county area. To hell with civilian shooters having access to any sort of a safe place to shoot. Their turd farm was only an excuse. It was pretty darn tough for them to argue, publicly, with law enforcement's requirements. Especially in light of the fact that our politicians had succeeded in shutting down every other public range on which they relied for the kinds of training opportunities we can provide. We are quite literally their "last man standing" in that regard. So, yeah, some of our motivations are a bit self serving. We really, really want to keep these relationships alive.

[Baz]

Jeff - I really admire the work you and your range folks are doing.

Thanks for sharing this with us - very informative.

[Superman]

In related news, I finally took the Ruger .45 Colt to the range (along with the Smith 442 and Springfield .45 ACP). I am considerably more accurate with the ACP. I wore foam ear plugs AND very expensive Harbor Freight over-the-ear muffs. I followed the Range Master's instructions to the letter.

Of the three handguns, the Smith 442 (hammerless .38 SNS) is the nastiest to shoot. Obnoxious and not a precision tool, but an overall favorite for its purpose. The sweetest handgun is the .45 single action. Just a total joy to shoot.

I ran a couple of boxes through both the SA and the ACP. Again, I was putting the ACP projectiles through about a 3" hole in the target at about ten yards. I could see daylight aside the front sight between the very square black rear sight vertical blocks. The Ruger is a different animal. Silver sights.....huh? Perhaps I should take a Magic Marker to them.

It's not the equipment. It's the operator. I just need to spend more time with this sweet piece. My shots were spread to the left and down. After first verifying that Professor Higgins' words are true. 200 Grain bullets shoot low (seriously...about 3") below 250 grain projectiles.

As an aside, I need to listen more carefully. To both Mr. Higgins and also to Mr. Walker. I am finding that when I fail to listen carefully to their teachings, I struggle. Until I listen.

[Jeff Higgins]

Supe, heavy bullets shoot higher. Your single action is meant to shoot 250 grain slugs. A little more recoil, and a little more barrel time, mean the muzzle is a bit higher in recoil when the bullet exits the muzzle. This results in a higher point of impact.

I have never understood unfinished stainless steel front sights. Probably the absolute worst color imaginable. No contrast against any sort of a backdrop, and almost impossible to see. Do yourself a favor and paint it. Rough it up a bit first. I like hi-vis orange, like your construction crews have to wear. Some like white, especially for hunting in low light conditions in the deep, dark woods. If you want orange, paint it white first - most "safety orange" is so thin and translucent that it will not cover darker colors.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Superman

Of the three handguns, the Smith 442 (hammerless .38 SNS) is the nastiest to shoot. Obnoxious and not a precision tool, but an overall favorite for its purpose.

What do you run through it at the range? It is a handful with the +P .38 special is less snappy. Happen to have some .38 long colt that is a lot less snappy.

[FOG]

Jeff,

I suggest you require those individuals along someone else higher in their chain of command pass the training before opening it their unit(s). Multiple reasons for this approach.

They are the product of their unit command climate. You will probably not be able to positively influence their command climate but requiring their superior to your training and then attend the units use of your range (until you are satisfied with their conduct) will lower the probability of bad stuff happening. The senior is then on the hook for the units conduct with no excuses.

Having a senior present affirms your (and therefor the public at large) lack of confidence in their professionalism. If asked by the senior if this requirement was for all be honest.

If the units have even a partial clue the problem should work itself out as they unit will not want the continued presence of a senior, hopefully for more than the professional embarrassment.

I have a little over 300 yards on my property and have other vets over approximately once a month ostensibly for shooting and burning of beef/pork. The problem child is a DPS Lt. Who happens to be the brother in law of a good friend (I was best man at his wedding and god father to his first daughter so...). The two USAF reserve pilots and the IDF soldierette learned the rules without any problem.

There things I don't chances with. I don't give out my reloading data unless it is a straight forward book (Sierra, Hornady, etc.) unless I have first hand knowledge the person is already competent and extrapolate into stupidity or worse, using NODs (either NVG or thermal) whether shooting or flying, and there are only three others that can use my property for shooting when I am not present. Experience has taught me that too many/most have the Rain Man problem of being a really good driver.

Good luck.

S/F, FOG

[DavidI]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Nope, no custom inserts - they had muffs hanging around their necks. Coupled with their reaction to my shot, it was pretty clear they had gotten the full effect.

These guys all clearly have some background in all of this. Likely from being in some branch of the service, in addition to have risen to the rank of not only their respective department's SWAT units, but additionally being in some sort of a training or squad leadership capacity in those units.

Their behavior is, of course, being documented back to their departments in the form of having failed our training, which denies them access to our range. They will have to come back and try again. Or, maybe more likely, their departments will have to send someone else back to try again. As for now, their departments have no access until they can send someone who will pass. I would hope that is not taken lightly by their superiors.

We love providing access to law enforcement at our range. We recognize that there are not very many options in our increasingly urban area. That, and the politics of our area tend to be a little hard on gun ranges, particularly outdoor ranges. Even more so with ranges that use up the footprint required to provide a 300 yard rifle range.

To be honest, out motivations are not entirely altruistic. It's also a matter of self preservation. We came within the proverbial "RCH" of being "eminent domained" into a regional, multi-county sewage treatment plant (otherwise known as a "turd farm") just over a decade ago. The only outdoor, multi discipline, long range shooting facility in a multi-county area, and local politicians were going to use the need of this new turd farm as an excuse to shut us down and seize our land.

Well, our many friends in law enforcement stepped in and saved the day. They made it clear to the politicians that they, themselves, had nowhere else to train. That is what put us over the top and saved our range. Politicians, even those who tout "gun safety" (while passing all manner of nuisance law that accomplishes anything but), were eager to shut down the only safe, controlled, supervised environment in a three county area. To hell with civilian shooters having access to any sort of a safe place to shoot. Their turd farm was only an excuse. It was pretty darn tough for them to argue, publicly, with law enforcement's requirements. Especially in light of the fact that our politicians had succeeded in shutting down every other public range on which they relied for the kinds of training opportunities we can provide. We are quite literally their "last man standing" in that regard. So, yeah, some of our motivations are a bit self serving. We really, really want to keep these relationships alive.

Those individuals who did not wear hearing protection have no excuse. They are setting the example for those who follow them, especially if they hold rank. On the flip side, just because they hold rank does not mean they are more skilled or more adept at high-risk situations. I am the commanding officer within my unit, but my other firearms instructors can outshoot me any day of the week and my tactical crew could outflank me as well. I rely on them for their expertise and instruction because they are truly the experts. I am the person who represents the unit higher up the food chain, but give all the well-deserved credit to those badasses doing the job.

Hold those individuals accountable and ensure they adhere to your range's policies for safety. Rock on and thank you for assisting first responders!

SF, David

[bugstrider]

Originally Posted by madcorgi

Interesting story, Jeff. IMO, some people who are drawn to be cops are just that way.

I disagree with this statement. To fire off with a blanket statement is just wrong.

Those that chose to serve our communities in public service want to be actively involved in “making a difference”. There is that 1/2% of any professional field that everyone always hears about. Law Enforcement is one just like many “others”

There are only a few professions that the men and women are willing to put on a uniform, identifying themselves and are willing to lie down their lives in the sacrifice of others. Today’s society has seriously forgotten that little fact.

Just last week, Sacramento PD lost a young female officer who was finishing up her training and was arriving on scene of a domestic violence call. As she and her fellow officers approached the property, she was plainly executed by the suspect who shot her at 50’ with a high power rifle. I seriously doubt she was in the profession because of her arrogant attitude thinking she was better that everyone else.

Besides “other” reasons CA has lost it’s common sense mind, there are those of the public that truly hate and feel the law enforcement are the enemy. The other officers that arrived in scene of the before mentioned shooting were heckled and harassed by protesters for trying to keep the rest of the neighborhood and public safe. There were threatened and spat at by individuals as rounds were flying overhead from the suspect shooting.

In El Dorado Hills, a community that is about 20 miles east of Sac, has a set of community boulders that people have painted messages on for years. The day after the Officer was lost, a community member painted a tribute to the Officer on the rock with her name, badge and the “end of watch” date. During the night of the same day, someone does this....


This is how many see L.E. In today’s narrow minded media fueled society, very sad.





To blindly state that “some people who are drawn to be cops are just that way. “ for those who chose to serve their communities in that particulate field is a narrow minded comment. And made by someone who has never lost a family member, loved one or friend who was a police office.

Any range training is a place that “everyone” needs to listen to the Range Officer, regardless of profession. It is unfortunate that these guys were in the field they are. Simply because they are suppose to be experts. There is always something to be learned, from a simple draw technique, sight picture, trigger pull, etc. Bottom line, you do not follow the Range Officer’s rules, your off the line....period.

Thank you Jeff for being willing to train those about gun safety.

Cheers




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jyl]

The statement was that SOME people drawn to law enforcement work feel that way. That is no doubt true.

The statement was not that ALL or even MOST such people feel that way. I'd disagree with such a s claim.