SWAT on the Range Today

Jeff Higgins · 06-21-2019, 04:37 PM

We were privileged to host half a dozen unit commanders from various local agencies today at my club rifle range. It was a training day for them, to acquaint them with the rules and procedures of our range, so that in the future they may bring members of their teams out to shoot. We offer some capabilities unique in our area, such as a rifle range that extends to 300 yards. We have always been eager to offer our range for their use - it's a long standing tradition for us.

For the most part they did great. Very attentive, eager to learn, and excited about gaining access. The oldest one there was probably 30, if that, with all in apparently top physical condition. There were, however, a couple of them that simply exuded attitude. I guess I don't understand that - we are doing them, and their agencies, a pretty big favor. Oh well...

During our "cease fires", when the range goes "cold", we have a red light that flashes and a bell that rings, alerting everyone to that situation. It is a self governed, cooperative affair, wherein those present agree to a cease fire, and one guy assumes the role of "rangemaster", operating the bells and lights. If they are not on, the range is, by default, "hot".

I called the first cease fire, with the instructor using my actions as an example for them. When I returned from hanging my targets, I turned off the warning devices, and the range was declared "hot". All but these two put their ear protection on. When I actually sat down to begin shooting, I finally had to holler out "you are on a hot range, please put your ears on".

Next cease fire was "theirs". Same thing when they returned from hanging targets and the range went hot - same two guys just stood there with their "ears" around their necks. The instructor let them know this time...

Third cease fire was again "theirs" - they went down range to retrieve their targets. When they returned and the range once again went hot, well, same thing, same two guys. They had their backs to me, less than ten feet away. I made eye contact with the instructor, shrugged my shoulders, and he just smiled... So I sat down and lit off my .220 Swift right behind these guys.

Those of you who shoot centerfire, high intensity rifle rounds know just how loud these things are. Add to that the fact that our range is under a substantial roof, with overhead and side baffles out to almost 50 yards, and it's pretty much like shooting one indoors. It's kind of loud...

These two wasted no time in getting all indignant and pissy with me. I stood right up and told them they were an embarrassment to these other fine young men, their profession, and their departments. The instructor backed me up, simply saying "you were told twice. Maybe now you will remember. We will see when - or if - you come back, because you just failed this training...".

I really hated to see that. I doubt they learned a thing from it. The other four, however, appeared to be fine young men of whom their departments can be proud.

71T Targa · 06-21-2019, 05:56 PM

Unbelievable that someone with that kind of background would neglect to do something as simple as putting their ears on.

Sounds like much more fun than the way I spent my day, pushing 1's and 0's around.

John Rogers · 06-21-2019, 06:13 PM

The CA Dept. of Justice has ruled that eye AND ear protection are "advised" and a shooting range where the shooters are members or guests, open to the public can not be told they have to use them! I found that quite strange and at our range in Dulzura we say over the loud speaker "eye and ear protection strongly recommended", been doing that for a couple years now. We also pay for range safety officers to attend the NRA RSO school and the RSO's wear a bright orange vest with a name tag. One is the Lead RSO and his/her commands are the law.

One thing we do once a year is host an open house in the evening with a cook out of burgers and hot dogs and then as it is getting dark we demonstrate various kinds of firearms. Myself and two others are the muzzle loader folks, also high power with a .338 Lapua Magnum, shotguns and several hand guns. Once in a while one of the teenagers will take their ear muffs off for one shot and then pop them right back on.

Jeff Higgins · 06-21-2019, 06:35 PM

On our ranges, eye and ear protection are mandatory. I'm not sure if it's a club thing, driven by liability concerns, or a matter of state law. I really don't care where it originates. These rules are clearly posted in literally dozens of places. They have been clearly explained to anyone who has gained access. And, in this case, these young men were clearly very much aware of typical range rules and etiquette. They equally clearly felt that they were above all of that, and that others would go out of their way to accommodate them. Maybe it's a generational thing. Older guys, even FNG's, seem to be far more able to follow the simple rules we both post and drill into them before allowing access.

jorian · 06-21-2019, 06:55 PM

I remember when I was young enough to still know everything...

LakeCleElum · 06-21-2019, 06:57 PM

You can always tell a SWAT guy - You just can't tell them very much..........

flatbutt · 06-21-2019, 06:57 PM

HTH does anyone stand on a firing line with open ears?

HardDrive · 07:06 PM

I had a fun experience at that range, about 15 years ago. Bone head who thought 'range hot' meant 'turn around to your other tactical rifle jack wagons, and discuss the espresso maker 3rd rail tactical solution' without your ears on.

I tried to be courteous, I took my time and made it very obvious I was going to shoot. I mean, you can not claim you did not notice when I'm loading a Hawken replica with a .50 lead ball. I took my time, setting up the shot, using the 'set' trigger, then squeezing off.

The guy jumped about a foot, and his friend just about wet themselves laughing. They all had ears on. Evidently, he was not expecting cannon fire.

Jeff Higgins · 06-21-2019, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

You can always tell a SWAT guy - You just can't tell them very much..........

I thought that was Norwegians. Maybe Norwegian SWAT...

06-21-2019, 07:55 PM

Interesting story, Jeff. IMO, some people who are drawn to be cops are just that way.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Around here those guys would have been kicked off the range, probably at any public range in AZ.

When I was in ROTC, we were shooting .22s at an indoor range. We didn't wear ear protection, though we all had it with us. I can't remember if they were single shots or 10/22s, but no pistols. It was kind of loud, but not bad. When another guy showed up and lit off a 1911, we all quickly grabbed our ear protection. Never again.

jyl · jyl's Garage

Hearing protection is not joke because hearing loss sucks.

06-22-2019, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl

Hearing protection is not joke because hearing loss sucks.

What?

id10t · 06-22-2019, 09:43 AM

Most of the times I've felt unsafe on a range or witnessed flat out stupid/dangerous behaviors on the range it is the LEO crowed at fault.

Sooner or later · 06-22-2019, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Rogers

The CA Dept. of Justice has ruled that eye AND ear protection are "advised" and a shooting range where the shooters are members or guests, open to the public can not be told they have to use them! .

I find this hard to believe.

My guess is that Justice said that hearing and eye protection in not mandated by the State

If a range doesn't want to make it mandatory that is fine. I don't think they mean it cannot be made a mandatory range requirement. It is a choice of the range.

John Rogers · 06-22-2019, 10:17 AM

Our "range attorney" attended a meeting that is held several times a year in Sacramento where the State DOJ, law enforcement, BATFE and those concerned about shooting, rules, regulations, ETC can attend. I was told it is not open to the public and our man in the grey suit goes to each one. The protection thing was sort of a shocker to me and most other RO's. So far as I know we haven't had anyone not use some sort of hearing protection and also eye protection since our RO's ride herd on the shooters closely.

We are also looking into how the San Diego County can "close" BLM land in two places here near Dulzura since some shooters started a pretty large fire there a couple years ago when shooting tracer ammo in their AR-15's. We don't allow tracer except for the military when the bring out their M2's for shipboard security training. That is usually a "night shoot" and they also shoot trap with their night vision goggles which is interesting to watch! Anyways the federal rangers didn't even attend the county supervisors meetings where local home owners showed doctored images and said the shooters were using full auto rifles and lots of other stuff that wasn't really true but the county closed things. Fortunately for us our shooting range is private property and we meet all the federal guidelines!

Danimal16 · 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Rogers

Our "range attorney" attended a meeting that is held several times a year in Sacramento where the State DOJ, law enforcement, BATFE and those concerned about shooting, rules, regulations, ETC can attend. I was told it is not open to the public and our man in the grey suit goes to each one. The protection thing was sort of a shocker to me and most other RO's. So far as I know we haven't had anyone not use some sort of hearing protection and also eye protection since our RO's ride herd on the shooters closely.

We are also looking into how the San Diego County can "close" BLM land in two places here near Dulzura since some shooters started a pretty large fire there a couple years ago when shooting tracer ammo in their AR-15's. We don't allow tracer except for the military when the bring out their M2's for shipboard security training. That is usually a "night shoot" and they also shoot trap with their night vision goggles which is interesting to watch! Anyways the federal rangers didn't even attend the county supervisors meetings where local home owners showed doctored images and said the shooters were using full auto rifles and lots of other stuff that wasn't really true but the county closed things. Fortunately for us our shooting range is private property and we meet all the federal guidelines!

Was that the San Diego Rod and Gun Club that they shut down??
Make that SOUTH BAY Rod and Gun Club (it has been awhile).

John Rogers · 06-22-2019, 11:16 AM

The South Bay Rod and Gun Club is still alive and kicking! There are two areas where BLM had parcels of land, one called "Pink Gate" and the other "Marron Road" or something similar where you turn off highway 94 to go to our area. If you look on the county website or our club site there is a map showing the closed areas. In the last several years we have bought several additional areas so we are now surrounded by land we own and even have a big area with club house, large work shop and living quarters for our range security/house keeper so things can be kept up. I guess in the distant past we some use for "Rods" although some old timers say it was put in the name to make it "friendlier"!

DavidI · 06-22-2019, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

We were privileged to host half a dozen unit commanders from various local agencies today at my club rifle range. It was a training day for them, to acquaint them with the rules and procedures of our range, so that in the future they may bring members of their teams out to shoot. We offer some capabilities unique in our area, such as a rifle range that extends to 300 yards. We have always been eager to offer our range for their use - it's a long standing tradition for us.

For the most part they did great. Very attentive, eager to learn, and excited about gaining access. The oldest one there was probably 30, if that, with all in apparently top physical condition. There were, however, a couple of them that simply exuded attitude. I guess I don't understand that - we are doing them, and their agencies, a pretty big favor. Oh well...

During our "cease fires", when the range goes "cold", we have a red light that flashes and a bell that rings, alerting everyone to that situation. It is a self governed, cooperative affair, wherein those present agree to a cease fire, and one guy assumes the role of "rangemaster", operating the bells and lights. If they are not on, the range is, by default, "hot".

I called the first cease fire, with the instructor using my actions as an example for them. When I returned from hanging my targets, I turned off the warning devices, and the range was declared "hot". All but these two put their ear protection on. When I actually sat down to begin shooting, I finally had to holler out "you are on a hot range, please put your ears on".

Next cease fire was "theirs". Same thing when they returned from hanging targets and the range went hot - same two guys just stood there with their "ears" around their necks. The instructor let them know this time...

Third cease fire was again "theirs" - they went down range to retrieve their targets. When they returned and the range once again went hot, well, same thing, same two guys. They had their backs to me, less than ten feet away. I made eye contact with the instructor, shrugged my shoulders, and he just smiled... So I sat down and lit off my .220 Swift right behind these guys.

Those of you who shoot centerfire, high intensity rifle rounds know just how loud these things are. Add to that the fact that our range is under a substantial roof, with overhead and side baffles out to almost 50 yards, and it's pretty much like shooting one indoors. It's kind of loud...

These two wasted no time in getting all indignant and pissy with me. I stood right up and told them they were an embarrassment to these other fine young men, their profession, and their departments. The instructor backed me up, simply saying "you were told twice. Maybe now you will remember. We will see when - or if - you come back, because you just failed this training...".

I really hated to see that. I doubt they learned a thing from it. The other four, however, appeared to be fine young men of whom their departments can be proud.

Jeff, that is outstanding that your range offers its use to the agencies! For any shooter, whether SWAT, military, civilian, etc. not to wear hearing protection on a live range is absolutely insane. Before jumping to conclusions, were they wearing custom inserts that you did not see? I have both types and use either one depending on what I am shooting.

I am the head of the Weapons Training Unit for my Department and would have escorted them off the range without exception. I also extend this ability to any of my firearms instructors. No exceptions!

Thank you for what you do my friend, David

stealthn · 06-22-2019, 07:11 PM

I always take any range rule (bow, gun, etc) very serious and hate it when others do not. I do not trust my safety to others and am always vigilant. I had to yet at a girl on the bow range a while back when she put an arrow in her bow and was about to pull back with two guys still on the range looking for arrows.

Good lesson you taught them..