Collings Foundation B17 crashes on landing

[Baz]

Slight thread drift - but related to overall subject of war birds. This PBS Nova documentary aired a few years ago and might be of interest......includes discussion of differences in survival rate between the B-17 and the B-24......

[Fast Freddy 944]

Originally Posted by Baz

Slight thread drift - but related to overall subject of war birds. This PBS Nova documentary aired a few years ago and might be of interest......includes discussion of differences in survival rate between the B-17 and the B-24......

Good vid, bad media source, PBS, LOL!!!

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by Fast Freddy 944

Good vid, bad media source, PBS, LOL!!!

Pity ignorance isnt painful.

Great vid, Baz. Thanks for the link..

[greglepore]

Leave one 75 yr d guy in charge of maintaining something that complex and....
Not meant as ageist, just that its way too much for a talented young man, never mind someone who has faced the ravages of time.


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[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Leave one 75 yr d guy in charge of maintaining something that complex and....
Not meant as ageist, just that its way too much for a talented young man, never mind someone who has faced the ravages of time.

I know quite a few young guys (like in their 20s) who have an astounding knowledge of aerodynamics, metallurgy, engineering. They were the guys who endlessly pestered the 75 yo guy for knowledge. Think you might be surprised.

[Fast Freddy 944]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

Pity ignorance isnt painful.

Great vid, Baz. Thanks for the link..

Yeah right, right back at cha!

[Fast Freddy 944]

Off the bird, I had the good fortune to check out a few C-130's, now that bird is still a beast, and a favorite of mine, But lets not forget the Peace maker, thats the muther of all bombers.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

I know quite a few young guys (like in their 20s) who have an astounding knowledge of aerodynamics, metallurgy, engineering. They were the guys who endlessly pestered the 75 yo guy for knowledge. Think you might be surprised.

I don't disagree with that at all. But he was the guy doing much of the actual work and maintaining the whole fleet. If he was just supervising, maybe, but supervising, flying and doing much of the actual maintenance was just a bad scenario. Having two misfiring engines on one wing and having to turn final into the dead motors? Sheesh.

I know he had the knowledge and given the right circumstances would have been a tremendous resource.

[Fast Freddy 944]

Originally Posted by greglepore

I don't disagree with that at all. But he was the guy doing much of the actual work and maintaining the whole fleet. If he was just supervising, maybe, but supervising, flying and doing much of the actual maintenance was just a bad scenario. Having two misfiring engines on one wing and having to turn final into the dead motors? Sheesh.

I know he had the knowledge and given the right circumstances would have been a tremendous resource.

What confuses me is that beast is ment to be tore up by flack, and Bf-109's and FW-190's and be landed all tore this beauty didnt make it. Its pretty bullet proof and designed to take a beating...

[Sooner or later]

It happened to them on takeoff. They never reached much altitude so they had no room for error.

[flatbutt]

I'm no pilot so if this ignorant please forgive. From what I'm seeing the pilots handled the in air emergency well enough to get the ship back on the ground but lost it on the landing. Was there something that forced the ship off to the right beyond the pilots ability to control?

[Scott Douglas]

I'm not a pilot either but I listened to the videos. That narrator said the pilot increased power just as he landed, on the engines that were working. That would have been those on the left wing, and that is what would have turned him to the right, into the tanks.
If it were me, I would have just cut power as soon as I touched down, but, like I said, I'm not a pilot.

[javadog]

The pilot would’ve been much better off using the other runway.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

I'm not a pilot either but I listened to the videos. That narrator said the pilot increased power just as he landed, on the engines that were working. That would have been those on the left wing, and that is what would have turned him to the right, into the tanks.
If it were me, I would have just cut power as soon as I touched down, but, like I said, I'm not a pilot.

left engines worked, but using them causes the airplane to roll over right
So he comes in on a right hand turn.. at near stall speed.. engines near idle

Just as he nears the runway he hits the runway lights.. pilot added power on left engines, causing the near roll over, briefly the plane accelerates, but it veers off to the right . power reduced, plane levels off, but at this point it's heading the wrong direction into the crash area.

It's a bit odd , why add power when he's near the runway center.
In hind sight it probably would have been better to just slam it down there, and take the damage.

But perhaps the pilot was trying hard not to damage the airplane
And tried something he shouldn't have. Instead making it worse.
That's the thing with rare hard to replace airplanes.. Sometimes trying to save it and avoid damage makes it worse.

NOTE, I don't want to come off as saying I would have done better or know it better or anything. Hindsight IS 20-20 .. fact remains, as they say.. He ran out of airspeed, altitude and ideas.


EDIT think I repllied/quoted wrong post there

[Scott Douglas]

I forgot he hit the landing lights.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by Baz

Slight thread drift - but related to overall subject of war birds. This PBS Nova documentary aired a few years ago and might be of interest......includes discussion of differences in survival rate between the B-17 and the B-24......

Thanks for posting - I watched the whole video. I know this is OT, and I have never served in the military, but damn - if I was lost in that manner I would NOT want my country to go to such expense. I cannot fathom what that costs this country.

Perhaps there's a lot more to it than I am privy to.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by greglepore

We know that one engine was out, they radioed that. We don't know that the second feathered prop was out, or by mistake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtcsVZcuVqI&feature=emb_rel_pause

Same sort of theory.