Super cars

[86 911 Targa]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-sports/the-18-best-german-supercars-ever-made/ss-BBMi2r8
^^^^^
This might start a bit of controversy...

Gerry

[fanaudical]

Hmmm...Lots (too much?) of Mercedes in that list...

[Aerkuld]

No Audi Quattro S1 Evolution? Sure it was a homologation-special-Group B rally car, but it was a production road-going car. That must fit the term 'Supercar'.
Pleased to see the 959 though.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

No Audi Quattro S1 Evolution? Sure it was a homologation-special-Group B rally car, but it was a production road-going car. That must fit the term 'Supercar'.

1 bit slow for a supercar , it barely goes 220kph (rally cars have short gearing)
2 super cars aren't pimped up production model cars with 4 doors and 5 seats
but designs of their own

The entire list of cars in that article, the SL300 wasn't really a supercar either.
It was a GT. The first real Supercar is generally considered the Lambo Miura...

BMW i8 has no place in that list either even a GT2 RS to me is not a supercar..
Sure it's fast, but it's an evolution of the 911, it's not a design of it's own.

It's not like the 959 which in it's days was the fastest most technologically advanced car on the planet.. There are others with more power then a GT2RS out there, right now.. quite a few actually

[masraum]

Originally Posted by svandamme

1 bit slow for a supercar , it barely goes 220kph (rally cars have short gearing)
2 super cars aren't pimped up production model cars with 4 doors and 5 seats
but designs of their own

The entire list of cars in that article, the SL300 wasn't really a supercar either.
It was a GT. The first real Supercar is generally considered the Lambo Miura...

BMW i8 has no place in that list either even a GT2 RS to me is not a supercar..
Sure it's fast, but it's an evolution of the 911, it's not a design of it's own.

It's not like the 959 which in it's days was the fastest most technologically advanced car on the planet.. There are others with more power then a GT2RS out there, right now.. quite a few actually

I get what you're saying about the 300SL not needing to be in the list as well as the i8.

The thing about the GT2RS is that it is faster and more powerful than the Carrera GT. It's got supercar levels of performance in a (by comparison) pedestrian package so it could go either way.

[kach22i]

The Isdera Imperator 108i was an interesting inclusion.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by kach22i

The Isdera Imperator 108i was an interesting inclusion.

Cool and weird.

< edit >

The Isdera Imperator 108i was a low-volume German sports car produced from 1984 to 1993. The Imperator 108i was born out of the Mercedes CW311 concept car from 1978, which Eberhard Schulz, who worked as a design engineer for Porsche, designed in his free time. Mercedes had no interest in putting the CW311 into production, so Schulz established his own company, Isdera to produce the car under his own brand.

Implementing a fiberglass body upon a tubular steel spaceframe, the Isdera Imperator 108i was comparable to the exotic sports cars of its day. Little was changed from the original Mercedes-Benz show car with the most noticeable changes being the replacement of the pop-up headlights with two fixed units and more conventional tail lights sourced from Mercedes-Benz. The original Imperator 108i featured a 5.0 L (5,000 cc) Mercedes-Benz M117 V8 engine which gave the vehicle a top speed of 283 km/h (176 mph) and a 0–97 km/h (0–60 mph) acceleration time of 5.0 seconds. As Mercedes-Benz developed more powerful V8 engines, they were used in the Imperator 108i. Later engines included a 5.6 L (5,600 cc) Mercedes-Benz M117 V8, a 5.6 L (5,600 cc) AMG V8 and a 6.0 L (6,000 cc) AMG V8 which saw an eventual increase of power from 300 hp (304 PS; 224 kW) to 390 hp (395 PS; 291 kW), with both AMG engines featuring advanced 32-valve cylinder heads.

Unusually, the Imperator 108i featured a rear-view periscope in place of conventional rear view mirrors which gave the driver the rear view, creating a bulge on the roof. It also featured gullwing doors, a first for a production street legal car since their first application on the Mercedes-Benz 300SL.

Inside, the car featured a luxurious interior and sourced many interior components from the Porsche 928.

< /edit >

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by masraum

The thing about the GT2RS is that it is faster and more powerful than the Carrera GT. It's got supercar levels of performance in a (by comparison) pedestrian package so it could go either way.

a GT2 RS is really a 911 with more boost and scaffolding in the back.
It rolls off the same production line as a 718 or any other 911.. Literally.

Its like them Ferraris with snazzy buzzwords like competizione legerra and what not.. it's a badge to indicate a higher level of tune and cost.. Not design.

Supercar is not "just" about performance
It's not "just" about looks
It's not "just" about design
it's not "just" about being exotic.

It has to check all the boxes, in comparison with it's peers within the era of it's conception.

So GT2 RS can be faster then a CGT, but why wouldn't it be, it's 15 year newer in tech..different era..
My Cayman will be probably go around the Ring faster then a Miura , that don't make it a supercar either.

The GT2 RS is not by any standards a classic design that stands out on it's own.
In 50 years nobody will look at a GT2 RS and say it defined the design of it's days.

Carrera GT on the other hand compares to nothing else
918 , same story.
the 959 stands out as well (not as radical tho)

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by svandamme

a GT2 RS is really a 911 with more boost and scaffolding in the back.
It rolls off the same production line as a 718 or any other 911.. Literally.

Its like them Ferraris with snazzy buzzwords like competizione legerra and what not.. it's a badge to indicate a higher level of tune and cost.. Not design.

Supercar is not "just" about performance
It's not "just" about looks
It's not "just" about design
it's not "just" about being exotic.

It has to check all the boxes, in comparison with it's peers within the era of it's conception.

So GT2 RS can be faster then a CGT, but why wouldn't it be, it's 15 year newer in tech..different era..
My Cayman will be probably go around the Ring faster then a Miura , that don't make it a supercar either.

The GT2 RS is not by any standards a classic design that stands out on it's own.
In 50 years nobody will look at a GT2 RS and say it defined the design of it's days.

Carrera GT on the other hand compares to nothing else
918 , same story.
the 959 stands out as well (not as radical tho)

The GT2 RS is faster than the 918! Check out the lap times for each at the many different tracks.

It just amazes me that my old 1985 911 evolved from a 2.0 liter 1964 901, and evolved with a lots with a lot of modern technology added, and massive bucket loads of money into the GT2RS.

[svandamme]

918 does the Ring in 6:57.00
Gt2RS needs 21 more seconds , does it in 7:18.00


918 has AWD 447 kW +210 kw hp and 1280 Nm of torques
GT2RS has RWD only 515 kW and 750 torques

I'll wager that at any track where the GT2RS was faster, the 918 simply hasn't been properly driven yet, either not enough anger was applied or not enough talent..

[RWebb]

SSK

anything McLaren sells for the road

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by svandamme

918 does the Ring in 6:57.00
Gt2RS needs 21 more seconds , does it in 7:18.00


918 has AWD 447 kW +210 kw hp and 1280 Nm of torques
GT2RS has RWD only 515 kW and 750 torques

I'll wager that at any track where the GT2RS was faster, the 918 simply hasn't been properly driven yet, either not enough anger was applied or not enough talent..

Lamborghini Aventador SVJ - 6:44.97s.
Porsche 911 GT2 RS - 6:47.3s.
Lamborghini Huracan Performante - 6:52:01s.
Porsche 918 Spyder (Weissach Package) - 6:57s.
Dodge Viper ACR - 7:01.03s.
Nissan GT-R Nismo - 7:08.59s.
Mercedes AMG GT R - 7:10.92s.
Gumpert Apollo Sport - 7:11.57s.