Counterfeits and knockoffs - Amazon guilty!!

[Vipergrün]

Just posted this in another thread, but I feel this deserves a thread all it's own.

Many of you will remember my post about my sons invention, Moki Doorstep, his Kickstarter campaign and appearance on Shark Tank with the biggest deal ever. Counterfeits on Amazon have killed him and potential of business and revenue. Amazon appears to not care and tens of thousands of dollars have been spent fighting the knockoffs. Patents do not matter to these people. To make matters worse, it appears at least one of the Kickstarter funders is making knockoff's

If you want some perspective, watch "Invalidated" and don't buy counterfeit crap! Our system is totally F'd up.

[sc_rufctr]

That sucks super big time! I feel bad for your son and his family.

Is there a lesson here somewhere?

[berettafan]

It seems amazon should be held responsible.

[Aerkuld]

Sorry to hear this.
Part of the problem with patents, in my opinion, is they're so easy to work around. Some of those knock-off steps have done this with a folding design. Different patent. Basically, you read the patent, find out specifically what it claims, then create a design which circumnavigates those claims and introduces something different. In my opinion, it all comes down to how good your patent attorney is at writting the claims.
Maybe the patent office has become far too lenient in granting patents.

[Dantilla]

Helped a friend get a patent a few years ago. Interesting learning experience.

The most protected time is after filing a provisional patent, where the idea is recorded, kind of like a time stamp, but the details are not made public.

Once filed, the applicant has one year to file the full application. Getting denied on minor details is a good thing, as it further stalls the details from becoming public. After back-an-forth a few times between the patent attorney and patent office, the patent is granted, at which time it is made public. That's when the knock-off leaches begin their work arounds.

Got to work a trade show with him. I'm not a natural salesman, but it was fun to play the part for a while.
How to respond when one of the big-wigs from a another manufacturer stops by the booth asking questions?
Took his name tag off, but I knew who he was. Instead of the normal sales pitch, went into what a difficult product to make, hard to source materials, labor intensive, hardly any profit. Boo-hoo, hope we survive, yada yada...
So far, his company has not invaded this little niche market in the corner.

[sc_rufctr]

The jolly German breaks it down.
Jörg talks about this from his "German" perspective but I'm guessing its much the same in the US.
Not good news for the smaller inventor. Maybe the whole system needs to be reviewed but even then that wont stop the Chinese.

[unclebilly]

So what is the patent number if he has a patent?

[craigster59]

I don't want to take this in a PARF direction, but that is probably THE biggest sticking point in President Trump's negotiation with China on trade is "Intellectual Property theft".

I heard an interview with a guy who owns a company that makes the small "chips" that are the "brain" for small electronics that we buy. His is a $2 billion dollar business and someone in China not only stole his patent, he is now prohibited from producing his "chips" in China or placing them in any products that are manufactured there.

This new deal, should it come to fruition should stop this kind of "IP theft".

[john70t]

Originally Posted by craigster59

This new deal, should it come to fruition should stop this kind of "IP theft".

It needs to happen first, to be enforced without mercy, and then not be overturned by the next HMFIC because their kid is getting a kickback or whatever.

Only then will small cottage industry business be able to thrive here again.

[unclebilly]

Jeebus...

You can’t steal a patent.

A patent only gives the monopoly to the inventor (or assignee) in the country the patent is issued in.

If you don’t file in China, and get a patent granted there, you have no patent protection there. It that simple.

What is patent protection? This is the right to sue someone who infringes on your patent in the country in which it is issued.

I am the inventor on at least 32 patents in various jurisdictions. My former company successfully defended a patent that has brought in over $700M usd in revenue worldwide. That one has patents in USA, Canada, Australia, some European countries, Eurasia (Russia), and maybe China?

[group911@aol.co]

Originally Posted by craigster59

I don't want to take this in a PARF direction, but that is probably THE biggest sticking point in President Trump's negotiation with China on trade is "Intellectual Property theft".

I heard an interview with a guy who owns a company that makes the small "chips" that are the "brain" for small electronics that we buy. His is a $2 billion dollar business and someone in China not only stole his patent, he is now prohibited from producing his "chips" in China or placing them in any products that are manufactured there.

This new deal, should it come to fruition should stop this kind of "IP theft".

I know. It's like people just don't care as long as they make a buck.

[cstreit]

One of the challenges to patent reform is enabling the patent trolls though. These companies will take vague patents and find similar products and then sue them for pure financial lawsuit gain.

[Vipergrün]

For an update, after much time, money, and some apparent non-conventional methods, my son has been nearly 100% successful getting the knockoffs off Amazon and out of the marketplace. He is now helping others fight the good fight. Regardless of how his product does, he has essentially come away with at least an MBA in practical business, startup, licensing, etc. without ever stepping into a classroom. So proud of him and what's in store for their family!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Vipergrün

For an update, after much time, money, and some apparent non-conventional methods, my son has been nearly 100% successful getting the knockoffs off Amazon and out of the marketplace. He is now helping others fight the good fight. Regardless of how his product does, he has essentially come away with at least an MBA in practical business, startup, licensing, etc. without ever stepping into a classroom. So proud of him and what's in store for their family!

Outstanding. Great work on his part.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Zeke

New phrase, "nearly 100%." Just how close is that? In terms of something like cancer, that wouldn't do.

BWTM, I wonder what "non-conventional methods" are. Did your son hire 'Guido'?

Yeah, I know about the non classroom MBA. I once put $40K into an idea of mine in terms of inventing it, prototyping it, developing it and marketing it. While the product was viable I made a very modest living at it. That showed it could/would work. Then came the recession of '91-'92 and I just let go. I never saw a dime of my investment.

However, the lessons learned are priceless because I have no, none, ambition to try again to bring a product to market w/o an absolute excess in capital, something that never happens. 1 in a quarter million succeed and that's subjective.

My assumption is that bringing a new product to market and making money at it is like being a rock star or uber successful comedian or super successful actor. There are lots of comedians, rock bands and actors, but most of them don't end up being superstars.

[stealthn]

This is an interesting read on gaming Az

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon-purchases-are-real-the-reviews-are-fake?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[berettafan]

a liberal client was telling me today how awful and obnoxious the current prez is.

i said sure but who else has made intellectual property theft an issue. he didn't care. was more concerned about behavior.

here we have a story from the real world. so glad it worked out for this guy. fark thieving china and the retailers that make their stealing profitable.

[Arizona_928]

I don't buy schit on Amazon. Ebay has a ton of knock offs. But it's easier to spot as the sellers aren't using stock pictures. One can do their own due diligence.
I'm not going to buy French perfume from Amazon. I'm gonna drag my butt to Macy's and guarantee I'm getting what I paid for. Fuch Jeff benzos