When your idol is no longer an idol

[Jeff Higgins]

Unbelievable article supporting Torrence in Dragzine:

https://www.dragzine.com/features/editorials-opinions/commentary-torrence-dq-wouldve-sent-wrong-message-to-racers-fans/

My God, this moron thinks turning drag racing into yet another form of WWF is a good thing.

I well remember when my boys were little and we watched a lot of NASCAR, because it was colorful, loud, and exciting to little kids. I turned to NASCAR because there was no chance of hearing the stars cussing like drunken sailors, or fighting like drunken sailors. We had given up watching the three big "stick and ball" sports for precisely that reason - I could not count on watching a game with my young sons without hearing or seeing some spoiled millionaire brat unloading either verbally or physically. Then, one day, NASCAR morphed into the WWF of auto racing, and we tuned out from it as well.

I would hope to see drag racing avoid all of that. I see the NHRA has posted a notice on their website that this is under review. I hope they disqualify the ass hole and strip his championship. They need to send a very strong message, lest they start down that slippery slope as well.

[asphaltgambler]

Similar deal recently on "street outlaws" - no prep series. they were running the mile high track where the air is thin and it's hard to make big power. Specifically turbo cars. There is just not enough air density to quickly spool the turbos on the starting line.....some of which the driver's claimed they needed 7-8 seconds with foot on the floor before enough boost was in to launch.

So for that event all the drivers had to sign a contract where the turbo cars were allowed 7 seconds after lighting the first stage bulb to build boost before light the 2nd stage bulb. Also no one could stage deep / go in and 'double bulb' to gain an advantage.

Well one guy; Jeff Lutz would spool his turbo car and when enough boost built go in an double bulb his opponent every time. he went 3 rounds ( and winning ) doing this and no one called him on it. His next opponent would not play into that staging game and made him (Jeff) back out of the beams and go in as the rules stated. The other driver won and a fight almost ensued.

[Jeff Higgins]

I can see that kind of nonsense happening on a contrived program like Street Outlaws. It's kind of "reality show racing", far too much like the old chopper and hot rod build shows with all of their manufactured drama. The NHRA, to maintain any respect and credibility, needs to remain above all of that.

[Eric 951]

No kidding..that "Street Outlaws" show would have one believe that everyone interested in drag racing has to wear all black all the time, nothing but flat bill hats and be willing to knuckle up for the most minor slight. Those guys may know cars, but they are also all clowns(or perfectly willing to be portrayed as such)

If the NHRA were really interested in maintaining any type of integrity they would have done something. The fact that they didn't lumps them together with the "Street Outlaws" crowd.

[Jeff Higgins]

In all fairness, the NHRA is still reviewing the situation. They haven't "not done anything" yet. Let's hope they take some stern measures to discourage this in the future. Making Torrence forfeit his championship by way of disqualifying him would send that message.

Didn't the NHRA, several years ago, threaten to pull the licenses of several competitors that were involved in this b.s. Street Outlaws nonsense? I remember is was some form of reality show street racing in which some licensed NHRA racers were involved. They dropped the hammer on those guys...

[sammyg2]

The NHRA has a long history of sweeping things under the rug to save face.
Bob Glidden's son was complaining that other pro stock teams were cheating with nitrous and the officials ignored him, so he said I'll prove it. He rigged up a hidden nitrous system on dad's car and they missed it until he pointed it out, so they banned him and forced Bob to retire for exposing the BS that was going on. That was a total bogus move on NHRA's part and is well-documented.

Remember the dodge boys, Alderman and Geoffrion?
The official story was that the wayne county speed shop got broken into and all their blocks, heads, and intake manifolds were smashed with sledge hammers. Nothnig else, just those particular engine parts.
That was all true, all except for the broken into part. NHRA caught them cheating with nitrous and made them smash their own stuff, and banned then for a period of years. And then they lied about it.
Alderman was busted for cocaine and they played that down, Geoffrion died in 2006 allegedly brought on my years of chemical abuse. But most of those details are buried deep.

Remember a while ago when jeggy retired for 2 years? Talk is that he got caught too.

Remember when Bernstein junior retired because of back problems? That was the official story but the rumor mill was talking about failed drug tests.
Same rumor with Alexis. By by, see you in a few years.

DISCLAIMER these are just rumors and discussions I've heard among the drag racing community, and I have zero proof. Grain of salt.

[ckelly78z]

I blame MONSTER Energy drinks, who brought the WWE mentality to NASCAR when they took over as sponsorship of the series. It became much more of an extreme sports event that was exciting/contoversial pandering to the millenial crowd.

The NHRA has always been rather buttoned down (except for John Force), and I hope they stay that way in the future.

[sammyg2]

Wayne County Speed Shop of the 1990's, does anyone know what really happened? The eventual outcome of every bull**** "under ongoing investigation"
Saturday, February 15, 2014 23:13

In 1991 Darrell Alderman won 11 events in his Dodge Daytona pro stocker and led the NHRA championship points from wire to wire and never trailed anyone between the months of February and October.
Warren Johnson was the second place finisher that year and he managed five event wins.
Alderman’s point total advantage at the end of the season was (like Bernstein’s above) more than 300.
Things went from great to horrendous in a short span after the 1991 series for Alderman.
He plead guilty to federal cocaine charges and was banned from competition with the NHRA for the 1992 and 1993 seasons. He returned with a vengeance for 1994 and won the title over his teammate Scott Geoffrion. There was all the talk of nitrous usage and rampant cheating among the cars in the “Wayne County Speed Shop” camp that were never officially proven on the record but to this day the whispers still linger.

another account of the Wayne Country Speed Shop that is related to the comment about nitrous and cheating happened in 1996, when believe it or not, I was watching a LOT of NHRA racing, and Geoffrion and Alderman were unbeatable. Suddenly, they stated that a break in occurred at their shop, and that every last engine was hit with a hammer, and they had to stop racing:

the Wayne County Speed Shop team of Scott Geoffrion and Darrell Alderman (see “Laughing Gas,” C/D, February 1996). The “Dodge Boys,” as they were known to fans, had dominated the Pro Stock division for years. And then in May 1995, somebody broke into the team’s shop –or as others speculate, somebody made it look like a break-in –and took a hammer to six engines, destroying them. The Wayne County team withdrew from the series for two years, citing problems in developing competitive replacement engines. The team has since gone out of business.
“Now, I don’t know about you, but if I were breaking into a building and putting someone out of business, I wouldn’t chop a hole in the side of it in the middle of the night,” Eckman said. “I think that would be a little noisy, wouldn’t you? I think I’d just burn the place down.
“But they had a hole chopped in the side of their building, with some really quiet chain saw, or a bulldozer, or something really quiet like that, and went in there and damaged all the engines –but not the trailer, not the cars, not the transmissions, and not the machinery. Isn’t that strange?”

There are some drag racers who believe the Wayne County “break-in” was self-inflicted, and part of a brokered agreement with the NHRA to punish them, privately, for nitrous oxide use and thereby avoid embarrassing Chrysler Corporation, the Dodge Boys’ sponsor. The FBI and insurance investigators pursued that scenario but did not confirm it. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/blowup-feature-suspicious-break-in-page-2

Warren Johnson: ”You have to realize the NHRA was a co-conspirator in that whole program,” ”Wayne County ran nitrous for too long, and it was too obvious. And the NHRA, with its financial investment, and with Chrysler being the dictator there, I think, you know, they were obviously co-conspirators.” http://www.caranddriver.com/features/blowup-feature-nitrous-controversey-page-3

A vandal or vandals cut a hole in the back door of the Wayne County Speed Shop that houses the Dodge Avenger Pro Stock cars driven by Alderman and Geoffrion and destroyed all seven of the team’s engines.

Team member Jim Musgrave, who discovered the destruction the morning of May 17, less than 12 hours before the team was to leave for Englishtown to compete in the Mopar Parts Nationals and the Du Pont Challenge, said it appeared that a sledgehammer was used to destroy the engines. Nothing else was damaged.

https://beforeitsnews.com/motor-junkies/2014/02/wayne-county-speed-shop-of-the-1990s-does-anyone-know-what-really-happened-the-eventual-outcome-of-every-bull****-under-ongoing-investigation-2487742.html

[fastfredracing]

That Jeff Lutz guy has his shop about 10 miles from me.

[sammyg2]

Bob Glidden info:

https://www.nitromater.com/threads/bob-glidden-and-nitrous-oxide.19541/

[Jeff Higgins]

I got the whole Wayne County Dodge story directly from Eddie Hill one rainy Saturday during the Northwest Nationals. My then nine year old son and I had gone to watch Saturday qualifying, which was rained out. We were walking through the pits, just looking at cars, and poor Chris, my son, was looking pretty darn dejected.

As we were passing the "nuclear banana" (the Pennzoil top fuel car of Eddie Hill's) pits, someone called out something like "hey kid, why the long face? Why don't you get out of the rain and come on in here, and have a hot dog or something?" It was Eddie Hill himself. He spent the rest of the afternoon pumping Chris full of hot dogs and Cokes, while regaining us with some great racing stories.

He eventually got to the Wayne County story. His version was that it was a "vigilante group" of disgruntled racers who had taken it upon themselves to "send a message" after the NHRA had ignored them. He told us they had made the Wayne County boys stand there and watch as they smashed all of their stuff. He claimed he had a direct line on that, but who knows. It's certainly one plausible variation of what might have happened.

As an aside, what a great guy, Eddie Hill. Chris still talks about that day. A top fuel champion grilling him hot dogs on a rainy Saturday afternoon. Doesn't get much better than that for a young race fan.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

Similar deal recently on "street outlaws" - no prep series. they were running the mile high track where the air is thin and it's hard to make big power. Specifically turbo cars. There is just not enough air density to quickly spool the turbos on the starting line.....some of which the driver's claimed they needed 7-8 seconds with foot on the floor before enough boost was in to launch.

So for that event all the drivers had to sign a contract where the turbo cars were allowed 7 seconds after lighting the first stage bulb to build boost before light the 2nd stage bulb. Also no one could stage deep / go in and 'double bulb' to gain an advantage.

Well one guy; Jeff Lutz would spool his turbo car and when enough boost built go in an double bulb his opponent every time. he went 3 rounds ( and winning ) doing this and no one called him on it. His next opponent would not play into that staging game and made him (Jeff) back out of the beams and go in as the rules stated. The other driver won and a fight almost ensued.

I think Lutz is a jerk. Ive been watching the no prep series this year and the racing is much better than the goofy street outlaw stuff. After almost every race the loser gets out and shakes the winners hand. Lutz and Larsen have huge egos and cant stand to lose so they throw a fit. I have no respect for that.
Ther real suck part is, NASCAR and NHRA are done for the year. Time to watch movies, I guess.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I got the whole Wayne County Dodge story directly from Eddie Hill one rainy Saturday during the Northwest Nationals. My then nine year old son and I had gone to watch Saturday qualifying, which was rained out. We were walking through the pits, just looking at cars, and poor Chris, my son, was looking pretty darn dejected.

As we were passing the "nuclear banana" (the Pennzoil top fuel car of Eddie Hill's) pits, someone called out something like "hey kid, why the long face? Why don't you get out of the rain and come on in here, and have a hot dog or something?" It was Eddie Hill himself. He spent the rest of the afternoon pumping Chris full of hot dogs and Cokes, while regaining us with some great racing stories.

He eventually got to the Wayne County story. His version was that it was a "vigilante group" of disgruntled racers who had taken it upon themselves to "send a message" after the NHRA had ignored them. He told us they had made the Wayne County boys stand there and watch as they smashed all of their stuff. He claimed he had a direct line on that, but who knows. It's certainly one plausible variation of what might have happened.

As an aside, what a great guy, Eddie Hill. Chris still talks about that day. A top fuel champion grilling him hot dogs on a rainy Saturday afternoon. Doesn't get much better than that for a young race fan.

I bought a Honda CR250M from him. Eddie Hill's Fun Cycles in Wichita Falls. Tx. He spent a couple hours shooting the chit with me about his racing.

Great guy.

[sammyg2]

I only met Eddie Hill once, it was at Ming lake. I was trying to tune my blown-gas flatbottom boat and he stopped by talked for a few. I didn't realize who he was at first, and then he said he has lots of parts and that if I needed anything, give him a call.
He's the real dude, Lots of respect for him. If he said it happened that way, i believe it.

BTW I was cleaning out an old book case a month ago and found another phone number, Jerry Darien. Hand written by him on a piece of paper, prolly from the mid 80's. Talk about tuner royalty, no one could tune a blown alcohol motor like him.
one of these days I should scan it before I space it.

[asphaltgambler]

I remember a true story about Pro stock in that era where 1 team - possibly Dodge had the nitrous tank hidden in the dry sump oil tank. They were back in the pits after testing and the tank blew up throwing engine oil sky high and over everything

If I remember right they closed up the hauler, put the front end back on the car and tried to leave - but were stopped. Possibly someone here remembers that. I think it was alderman coming back from being banned for 2 years?

[sammyg2]

"They will tell you it's totally impossible to run nitrous & not get caught'' Glidden said " but thats wrong,Thats flat wrong. A Ford with nitrous bumped me outta the field at Topeka last year. A Ford out of my own trailer. So nobody can tell me it can't be done. I know it can be done."
The the father told a incredable story of how his kids had bugged him for 18 months , convinced that some Pro cars were running nitrous & that he was missing the boat by not running it too. "I told them if i had to cheat to race i'd quit" he said "My kids know that: " if you think other people are doing it then go ahead, prove to me you can do it.But keep in mind that if you get caught you're going have to deal with the consequences; So they did & never got caught"
Later in the story
Then came the bombshell--- an admission at Indy by a Pro Stock racer with firsthand knowledge of nitrous oxide use : Rusty Glidden. With his confession came a detailed description of how the nitrous system was secreted in his car. "The holding tank was the big weight bar in the back. The nitrous line started there,went over the axle housing right up to the front of the car & stopped at the motor plate, which was rifle-drilled. One of the supports holding the hood scoop on was rifle-drilled & went up thru the top of the hood scoop to a small stainless steel line that had 2 jets centered over the carbs. With .029 jets we made 120 ftlbs more torque at 7000 rpm & averaged 90 more horsepower. According to Bob Glidden , the nitrous system was detection proof. "you had to have a combination of things to activate it so a tech guy couldn't walk up , turn on the ignition & open the throttle. The shock switch had to be on, the computer switch on, the engine running & the throttle wide open. Trust me" Glidden concluded " Thats not fiction".

https://www.nitromater.com/threads/bob-glidden-and-nitrous-oxide.19541/page-2

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Eric 951

No kidding..that "Street Outlaws" show would have one believe that everyone interested in drag racing has to wear all black all the time, nothing but flat bill hats and be willing to knuckle up for the most minor slight. Those guys may know cars, but they are also all clowns(or perfectly willing to be portrayed as such)

Several of those guys are now millionaires. All because of the show. For that sort of money most people will act however the director asks.

Chuck has dynoed my 911 twice. Several of the shops are within a few miles of my house.

The real "winners" of that show is Farm Truck and Azn. They do nothing much more than the comedy relief, and have a neat store I have been to. They get to do some silly stuff, and make money doing it.

[sammyg2]

It'd be fun to watch Steve Torrance try to hit Matt Hagan like that.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

It'd be fun to watch Steve Torrance try to hit Matt Hagan like that.

My buddy said that this morning. Hagan would break him in two.

[sammyg2]

Hagan is a beast.
'bout 5 years ago, maybe longer, someone teased him about being .... pudgy. I think it was john force, but he wan't trying to be mean about it.

Evidently Matt didn't like that and he hit the weights.