GI Joe question

[jyl]

If a GI Joe (the 12" kind) and his M60 were "real" - I mean scaled down but alive with a working MG - what is the largest backyard animal he could defend against? A squirrel, cat, racoon, dog?

Yes I've been watching too many movies. But what's the answer?

[sc_rufctr]

Maybe a medium sized dog. What does it take to down an African Elephant?

[911boost]

A Cobra

[aigel]

What gun did he have? An M60? 7.62×51mm NATO?

https://www.gijoeelite.com/M60-Rifle

If he is a foot tall, then that's probably a 1:6 scale, right? Scaling the 7.62 Nato, we'd end up with a 1.27 mm caliber and a 8.5 mm case.

I am not an expert but the smallest common rifle caliber used for varmints is the .17 HM2 - that's 4.5 mm caliber with an 18 mm case.

So, GI Joe has probably 1/10th the firing power of the .17? I would say he could probably still kill a small rodent, especially with a machine gun, but I would not let GI Joe alone in the backyard with anything bigger than a fox squirrel.

G

PS: Good to see you John.

[jyl]

I was guessing a 7.62 round probably penetrates like two feet in soft tissue - GI Joe is presumably firing a mix of full jacket and tracer. So scaled down, 24" / 6 is 4", and sticking things 4" inches into a large dog - 700 times a minute - would seem pretty discouraging to said dog.

But wait, the mass of GI Joe's bullet is only 1/216 the mass of a full size bullet (1/6 cubed). Maybe the velocity is the same as a full scale bullet - 1/216 the mass of powder propelling 1/216 the mass of projectile. So kinetic energy is 1/216 the KE of a full scale bullet. Does that mean it only penetrates 1/216 as much? Now we're only sticking things 24" / 216 = 0.1" into the dog, which isn't nothing but if the dog is excited, isn't much. Probably wouldn't even dent the skull.

I'm starting to think GI Joe could possibly fend off a curious squirrel or sparrow. Maybe not a cat, since a cat would stalk and pounce before GI Joe could get off more than a burst. Not a dog, for sure, absent an eye shot.

[Edited to correct math, GI Joe is 1/6 scale not 1/12 scale!)

[aigel]

It is interesting to think in proportionality. Maybe it just means that everything is scaled down by a factor of 6. So, if you can shoot an elk with a 7.62 (about the largest thing you'd want to kill with it), you could shoot an animal 1/6 the size (shoulder height = 60 inches) of an elk with GI Joe's gun. An animal 10 inches shoulder height would be a small to medium sized dog.

G

[jyl]

I looked up the muzzle energy of a 7.62 x 51 bullet, about 3600 J. 3600 / 216 = 16 J. That's about the muzzle energy of an airgun pellet. Hmm. I think aigel is right. GI Joe with a GI Joe issue M60 could probably defend himself against a squirrel. But nothing much bigger, unless that thing stands still and lets GI Joe hose him down with airgun pellets.

I have a weird tradition of having toy soldiers secreted in the bushes of the backyard, as symbolic defenders. This started when I was a little kid and probably speaks to some childhood stress or simply to never fully exiting childhood. The current guardian is a 12" GI Joe that I unearthed from a box of my childhood stuff and put out there to do whatever he is supposed to do. Now I know that while he might be an effective intelligence agent, his actual defensive capabilities barely even extend to self defense.

(Edited to correct math)

[jyl]

Yeah I remember being disappointed as a little kid to read that if you went to a world of giants, they would be hardly able to walk - mass is volume hence cubes while bone strength is area hence squares.

[jyl]

Clearly I need to get some of these https://www.gijoeelite.com/Russian-Anti-Tank-Grenade

[KFC911]

I'm betting Higgin's has a GI Joe hand load....or will !

[herr_oberst]

Anti-tank grenades would be great, but maybe a Jeep mounted .50 cal would be useful, too...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Hasbro-2002-WWII-G-I-Joe-1941-Willys-Jeep-1-6-Scale/293349916483?hash=item444d047f43:g:-UwAAOSwrxpd3cdz

[sc_rufctr]

Cool Jeep!

[wildthing]

I am no physicist and I am too lazy to look it up, but does velocity scale down in a linear fashion, the same as length/height?

Does time shrink as well?

Too early for me for these questions.

[jyl]

Some searching on what is obviously a do-nothing day led me to the world of miniature firearms. Here are two links.

https://minifirearms.com/miniature-guns-that-shoot/

Size Matters - The World Of Miniature Firearms

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-526655/Introducing-worlds-smallest-gun-fires-deadly-300mph-bullets--just-TWO-inches-long.html

It seems that while the 1/4 scale ones can actually be made to shoot 1/4 scale ammunition, smaller scale ones don't actually fire.

Oh, hey, I just noticed. One of the linked articles says that when the miniatures get too small, the bullet velocity is too low for accuracy.

Hmm. Does that mean wildthing is right, the 1/6 scale M60 round will have a 1/6 scale velocity, and thus kinetic energy just 1/1296 that of the full scale bullet?

That would make his gun only a little more powerful than an Airsoft . . .

Do you remember the movie "Fantastic Voyage". And other movies where people are miniaturized. Wasn't there also a movie with miniature GI Joes (the smaller kind) running around a suburban neighborhood? I guess those movies aren't realistic at all :/)

[jyl]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

Anti-tank grenades would be great, but maybe a Jeep mounted .50 cal would be useful, too...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Hasbro-2002-WWII-G-I-Joe-1941-Willys-Jeep-1-6-Scale/293349916483?hash=item444d047f43:g:-UwAAOSwrxpd3cdz

I not going to pretend I haven't looked at those on eBay before . . .

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Thanks.

Next year, when I mow the lawn, I will be scoping the landscape for GI Joe and his jeep mounted 50 caliber. If I didn't spot him, it would be logical for him to shoot in self defense.

If I see a dead squirrel, that will tip me off to his presence. Without testing to confirm the math, prudence is needed.

[wdfifteen]

Great thread! This is why I love this place.

[GH85Carrera]

If ever there was a question a 8 year old would ask a 10 year old boy, that is it.

Like if Godzilla battled Mothra how long would the fight last.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

If ever there was a question a 8 year old would ask a 10 year old boy, that is it.

Yes, but we adults have data and calculations that make it more than speculation.
In other words, we are serious about this sh**t.