Or, the govenor of VA (or whatever state you are in) decides that you are no longer allowed to own an ICE and mandates you turn in your ICE for an EV.

The numbers don't add up. The majority of autos are ICE and gasoline has a much higher energy density.
Next, if the majority of people recharge at night that will increase the energy generation needs and consumers will no longer get a lower rate for off-peak usage.

Plus answer this:
What do the people in a major cities with no garage do to recharge their cars? Will every parking spot also have a charger? What will the cost to setup that kind of infrastructure cost and WHO do you think will pay for it?
How about an apartment dweller?
Finally, when CA decides to do a blackout or brownout, how many people will no longer be able to get to work? Their infrastructure is already at max capability. There aren't enough unicorns to magically fart the power needed to go to EV.

yes, the daily commuter - except for the initial cost (which explains why Tesla and now Porsche, Audi are moving in to the luxury GT slots)

for EVs in general, the delivery van is the sweet spot (also buses, meter maid cars) - Amazon just tossed a big big monkey wrench at the Fedex, USPS, UPS plans to design EV delivery vans - we'll see who wins the shootout

California's solution to this is to make it the most tax intensive and hostile to business they can manage and chase away productive folks that live here. Fewer productive folks, less demand for energy, and less stress on the crumbling infrastructure.

That was Literally Gov. Brown's plan in the 70's for infrastructure. Stop urban sprawl by defunding infrastructure maintenance. People will get pissed and leave. problem solved.

Lots of really good points here.

Another question is what is going to happen in 5-10 years when all the batteries will need to be replaced, what happens to the old ones...?

Old batteries are eaten by the unicorns who create more magical energy without any environmental impact.

A $20K e-commuter makes the $7500 or whatever it is now credit much more enticing to the masses.

Standardize the connectors , batteries and even the drivetrain components and we will get there.

Because fuel prices are some of the the lowest it’s ever been. Once coal powered EVs are everywhere gas will be even cheaper. But they certainly won’t be everywhere until they are priced low enough for the Everyman. And after more coal burning power plants are built....

This. Fuel prices are as low as the early 1970s if you adjust for inflation. Well outside of California anyway, with normal gas and taxes.

Our 100% gasoline is $2.30 or so now. 10% gasohol is just over 2 bucks, but I don't use that crap.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1682-5

is someone paying you to spread disinformation?

This morning gas delivered price at work was $2.065 vs coal at $1.870. That $0.195 difference doesn't offset the extra cost of turning coal into electricity vs natural gas. Coal is dead.

That's the Liberal agenda for California's central San Joaquin Valley.

If you can’t define “disinformation” then you aren’t in a position to know what is or isn’t.

Natural gas fired plants are great but that is next on hated list.

I don't currently care about the social, economic, and ecologic implications of EVs. I'm just lamenting the sooner-than-expected obsolescence of my multiple ICE vehicles. If there's an infrastructure or economic roadblock to their widespread implementation, the free market, like nature, will accommodate the necessary changes (for better or worse).

I won't pay attention to arguments that the cars aren't good, because they are. Until you drive one yourself, it's hard to explain. I mashed on the car, and it was a rocket. Then I completed the rest of the errand by jacking up the regenerative braking and driving the rest of the way, with traffic, using only one pedal, like a golf cart. It was raining out, and we had the car drive itself over from its parking spot and meet us in front of the shop. Crazy. Didn't use self-driving beyond that (because it still makes me nervous), but I can imagine that at the end of the day or night out, when you're exhausted and you just want to get home, it would be pretty damn nice to have your car meet you out front and chauffeur you home.

When more people get a taste of that, people who aren't hard-core enthusiasts like us (>90% of the population), they won't be going back to ICE, and EV will be the only game in town. Honestly ask yourself if you see any major manufacturer still making ICE vehicles 20 years from now. That's why I'm kicking the idea around of retrofits, because god-willing I want to keep driving in my 70's. And I hate the idea of having to drive 20 miles out of my way to one of the last few remaining gas stations to fill up (assuming the ICE cars are still allowed on the road).

claiming that EVs are "coal powered" is just BS

go post in PARF

ok, which ones?

sports cars with fun engines are not going anywhere so the obsolescence doesn't apply there

obsolescence for commuter cars, luxury cars, trucks, maybe GTs is some years out

the only thing I see is fewer gas stations in some areas - in rural areas of the inter-mountain West there has been a shortage of gas stations for decades, and I've had to plan camping trips to get gas between 9-5 in small towns since the 1970s, besides carrying a 5 gal. jerry can

those will likely be the last areas to go with EVs anyway


Ok, I just checked to be sure you didn't live in Finland (which may outlaw sales of ICE cars in several years). E of Seattle you have LOTS of options, and that will continue for a long time.

Nader, don't be sad.....

I'm on the front line of EV technology and have spent the last 3 yrs helping to push the boundaries of what can be done in motorsport which is a long way ahead of what can be done for the road

I also keep one foot in reality by choosing to drive to work in my beat up 25yr old Toyota diesel 4x4 that doesn't even have an ECU or electric fuel pump :D

I could buy a new Tesla but I truly believe I'm being greener by keeping another ICE car on the road instead of replacing it with several new EV car's or one new EV car and several battery packs while my old truck keeps on racking up the miles.

The EV technology revolution is all very clever stuff but I don't think the world is anywhere near ready for EV only cars/transport, from production, domestic electrical charging infrastructure to recycling so I think progress that will more than likely be measured in decades not years

The throttle in a tesla works like a reverse brake, instant and can be startling if pushed too hard.

I am positive the rate of EV adoption will continue to increase. I think if you throw emotion aside the most compelling vehicles for the current state of battery technology are the plug in hybrids. You can do alot of your comuting in something like a prius hybrid on electricity and then get 50mpg on organic liquid joy for longer trips. All in a nice reliable package for 30k.

That is impressive engineering to me, not quite as fun as a 10 second quarter mile though.

"Coal powered" is a stretch but, it points to the fact that "zero emissions" EVs are disinformation with a side order of virtue signaling. The power comes from somewhere and is usually from fossil fuel.

I can't wait until all the EV folks start screaming at the sky when they have to pay a heavy tax penalty to offset the lost revenue from taxes when purchasing gasoline.

You paid too much for the car, you are hindered where you can go or how far you can go, you'll end up paying a higher tax penalty. Sounds like a deal to me.

DIY retrofits seem pretty close, from what I have seen.
There are a few places already that will sell you a controller for a junkyard Tesla drive unit, but from what i have seen they lack features like regenerative braking and charge controllers. On top of that, the programming and wiring looks complex for those of us who are not EEs.

Sincere question concerning ^
Who do you go to when you need a repair?

the same place the Vanagon owners with Sube motors go...


just say non-zero emissions...

From what I've read, they've basically hit the wall on batteries. Until someone has that breakthrough moment of figuring out what's next, batteries are about as good as they're going to get at this point...and it's not good enough.

In the above case a decent mechanic can work on a VW chassis or a Subie engine.
Who can navigate EV technology not installed by the manufacturer? Tesla won't touch it and I can't imagine an indy wanting to dig into a glitch in a Rube Goldberg contraption with high voltage.

Telsas instantaneous combust, and take all day to put out.
They're made for paved roads and really haven't had r&d that other manufacturers do. Unless you consider yourself the guinea pig beta tester.

They're a fad and will be at the end of the life especially as they have exhausted the Fed incentive. Well unless you consider telsa a status symbol.

The problem with the car is that the technology isn't yet been found to make the thing practical. Will EVs be the future? Sure but not with what we have to work with today. I'm also not a fan of the Ponzi scam that Musk has run on the American tax payers but that is financial and not technical.

This is all going to be controlled by "the collective".
Individual rights to individual property be gone.
Given to the state to control.

Whenever the (private) public power station is running low, the easiest thing for them to do is steal power from 100,000 EV cars plugged in for the night.
Easy enough.
I'm sure the numbers will all be accurate.

But what happens when someone absolutely needs to take that 200mi trip NOW, but their car is drained to 10% charge?

If you build your own, I would think you can fix it yourself.
We have a p-car shop here in seattle that is advertising electric conversions... i would imagine they would work on other makes of conversions.

Not really that much different that putting an aftermarket EFI on an old 911, is it?

The tesla drive units seem pretty bombproof.... i for one would give it a shot once the kits get better.

I'm talking lithium ion electrical fires. The procedure to put one of those bad boys out is insane. Cut holes in the body. Water. Put it at a 45° angle and watch it for half a day so it doesn't catch again. Let alone if you're stuck in the car for two hours initially. Least the examples you gave had mechanical exists.

I agree with everything else you stated.

They have been doing 914 electric conversions for awhile now with normal deep cycle batteries. It's nothing new. Just musk paid some ******* to figure out a way to put laptop batteries into a car lol

The grid typically only runs low for seconds or minutes at a time. The way Texas works is that wholesale prices skyrocket when this happens. I’d love to sell every kWh my car had for $9 each when needed.

You would decide whether to allow your car to provide backup to the grid, plus your car would know your schedule tomorrow to know if you need a full charge in the morning. This is pretty simple stuff compared to everything thing else a Tesla does now.

Cars and coffee evrywhere?

Mandatory smart meters w/constant network monitoring are already spreading like the plague.
Remote utility permissions to charge a person's vehicle is next.
Every vehicle will be licensed, not owned.
"Only the tip. I promise."

Much the same reaction that I had after driving my friend's dual-motor Model 3.

Here's a well-presented evaluation of the Tesla Model 3 by an aerospace engineer and real ICE enthusiast.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MpvEa61nN3E" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Coal still supplies a lot of USA power plant energy production in 2019. World wide, coal is the major energy source. Until the fear mongering nuclear ninnies die off we are still charging EVs by coal...

"They" forced the local coal plant out here to close down. Leaving a few small towns struggling to get power. Nice regulations killing things

Coal accounted for 27.5% of energy production in 2018 and is the only energy source not only declining, but steeply at about 100 billion kilowatthours per year. That will only accelerate. All other sources of energy are increasing.

I wouldn't doubt if coal is 10% of total energy production in less than 10 years.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

It's amusing to those of us who drive evs on a daily basis to hear the haters tell us that they don't work. A really good solution to those who don't like evs and can't believe they are actually useful is simply DON'T BUY ONE!

Not in places like CA or NY.

I'm really happy for you. What concerns me is when governments want to take away that choice.

BTW, since you know how great EVs are, please answer these questions I asked earlier:
What do the people in a major cities with no garage do to recharge their cars? Will every parking spot also have a charger? What will the cost to setup that kind of infrastructure cost and WHO do you think will pay for it?

How about an apartment dweller?

Finally, when CA decides to do a blackout or brownout, how many people will no longer be able to get to work? Their infrastructure is already at max capability. There aren't enough unicorns to magically fart the power needed to go to EV.

Remember that these are questions in light of increasing political pressures to eliminate the ICE.