i cannot believe the DAM(s) faled in MI.

[CurtEgerer]

As far as I know, it's the MI DEQ (Dept of Environmental Quality) who controls all waterways in Michigan. Try to get a simple dock permit for your cottage sometime! It's nearly impossible. But then something like this slips thru??

[KFC911]

^^^ $$$ and a "connection"

[Scott Douglas]

Yeah, this certainly doesn't pass the sniff test if you ask me.

[CurtEgerer]

Originally Posted by vash

i cant be sure, but i would imagine draining the dam, and letting it relax, and then filling it up and putting the dam under load is worst than never draining it in the first place.

i am not a dam expert, but this applied to all my 911 oil seals.

I think you are right. I'm a structural engineer but not an expert in dams at all. But I agree, there are potential issues with a drained earthen dam.

[Scott Douglas]

Would flood insurance even apply if it's not an 'Act of God' flooding?

[CurtEgerer]

Pro Tip: watch for flood vehicles coming out of MI. My daughter's friend's car from Wixom Lake.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by vash

effen unbelievable!!

i need to read up more, but it isnt a big reach to think this is not what they needed right now, or ever.

I was just on the phone with a guy telling me about this today. He lives up there, but is not affected.

Originally Posted by KC911

^^^^ Indeed! I saw that early this morning on the news...a strange bridge with three legs that met in the middle.

It's ark week here too...

Stay safe!

Apparently the call that the "tridge" or "three spoke bridge". Google images worked when I searched for "tridge" It's a foot bridge.

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

When living in MI, I had 2 houses on the Tittabawassee River that would've been impacted by this. Had family evacuate last night. What's surprising is that the dam didn't fail years earlier. It was a well-known disaster waiting to happen. 90+ years old. Numerous structural defects. Did not meet Michigan dam safety standards. Was shut down by the Feds and license of owner pulled a few years back after a 15-year battle. Wixom Lake (man-made lake/reservoir impounded by the dam) was emptied a couple of years ago due to concerns. A group of property owners recently bought the dam (and 3 others on the same river) because they were tired of looking at an empty lake in front of their vacation homes. A $20 million dam repair plan was drawn up.

But here's the amazing part: the repair plan was scheduled to start in 2023, including $5 million from the State and the rest to be assessed to property owners. Sounds good so far. But then somehow, they get permission from the State to fill the lake back up last year with a completely unrepaired, structurally defective dam impounding the water Who approved this??

Feds had classified this as a High Hazard Dam due to the looming disaster for the City of Midland and Dow Chemical downstream. Wonder if anyone will be held accountable?

Wow, I assume the person that asked for permission will try to play dumb and the person that authorized the request will be thrown under the bus as the bus performs a 3000 point turn.

[Pedro '84 Coupe]

All three dams were run by a private company called Boyce Hydro Power. They were warned by the Feds that the dams couldn't handle floods. Their license was revoked because BHP failed to address safety concerns.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/05/20/ferc-revoked-failed-edenville-dam-permit-flood-midland-gladwin/5226648002/

[Scott Douglas]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Pro Tip: watch for flood vehicles coming out of MI. My daughter's friend's car from Wixom Lake.

Wow, what a mess. And now they can't even drive somewhere to get away from it all.

[CurtEgerer]

Yes, but Boyce no longer owns them. The property owners group bought them 1-2 years ago. But the problems with the dam date back to at least the 1990s.

[Pedro '84 Coupe]

Very sad for those affected. Unfortunately infrastructure across the nation is in need of much-needed upgrades or replacement. Many substandard or obsolete roads and bridges in the richest country in the world.

[CurtEgerer]

Looks like a nice day on the beach at Wixom Lake today. Back to pre-1915 condition with just a river gently flowing through the valley

[KFC911]

^^^ About 15 yrs ago, one of the largest lakes in a chain was drawn down to the river channel during a drought...

High Rock became Dry Rock for a while.

Alcoa controlled the dams and flows....$$$ talks

[CurtEgerer]

On the positive side, the guy sitting on his dock and his fellow lakesters won't need to go thru the hassle of getting their boats and jet skis out of storage for the next few years. Think of the money they'll save.

[rfuerst911sc]

When mother nature is angry it's tough for sub par structures to endure her fury . This will be a lawsuit nightmare that will drag on for many many years . I feel bad for all the innocent folks affected by this tragedy ............. there will be LOTS of finger pointing !!!

On a different note we need to get the hel$ out of Afghanistan/Iraq and use that $$$ on US infrastructure . I'm sure as citizens we would be horrified to know how many bridges we drive on daily that are deemed " iffy " by the experts . End of rant

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by vash

i am not sure. but arent DAMS federal? army corp of engineers?

poor Michigan. that sucks nevertheless.

dams can be run by or constructed by TVA, BPA, Army Corps, a state, county, city, or private parties

dunno about these

this country has some really bad infrastructure problems, and you can expect worse floods in the future...

[CurtEgerer]

So dams in MI are required to be inspected by the State every 3 years. This dam was last inspected in 2010. And failed that inspection miserably. Yada, yada, yada, here we are 10 years (almost to the day) later.

My prediction: this will be blamed on a 10,000 year storm or some such nonsense and all responsible parties will walk away happy. And I'd like to thank all you taxpayers out there in advance for picking up the tab to build a new dam and lake because I'm sure some sort of Fed bailout money will come to the rescue.

Edit: there were repairs done last year, but these did not address the structural problems or the primary issue of increasing the spillway capacity to accommodate flood waters.

[RWebb]

well, guess what!

flooding triggered by dam failures in Michigan could potentially release toxic pollution from a site contaminated by the industrial giant Dow Chemical.

Dow’s facility in Midland, Michigan, where the company is headquartered along the Tittabawassee River, manufactured chlorine-based products beginning in the early 1900s. The company discharged dioxins, chemical compounds which can cause reproductive harm and cancer, into the river.

The pollution built up in sediment in and along the river and in its floodplains, extending 50 miles downstream through the Saginaw River and Saginaw Bay.

The US Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) superfund program has been overseeing Dow’s cleanup of the site since 2012, and the last portion of the project was expected to be completed in 2021.

Former EPA officials warned that the cleanup project probably was not engineered to protect against a flooding event of this scale and said high-velocity waters could damage the cap and release contaminated sediment back into the river.

Kyle Bandlow, a Dow spokesman, told the New York Times that the floodwaters had reached the facility’s outer boundaries and were entering ponds designed to hold runoff of water used on the site.

[KFC911]

^^^^ That could make this tragedy a LOT worse....sucks .

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

Would flood insurance even apply if it's not an 'Act of God' flooding?

There's always FEMA but I think the area affected would have to be "officially" declared a disaster by FEMA in order to qualify for assistance.