i cannot believe the DAM(s) faled in MI.

[cabmandone]

[Crowbob]

This is emblematic of the entire Michigan infrastructure. Numerous free-way overpasses were actually condemned, IIRC.

It’s a mess all over. Everyone knows about the roads, of course. Governor Whitmer’s campaign slogan was Just Fix The Damn Roads! She ran into a Republican roadblock with her proposed $.47/gal. gasoline tax which was being revived by formulating yet another shell game when boom, the plague hits us right in the berries.

Alden B Dow was a prolific modern architect 1930’-60’s of the style of Michigan Modern. His home in Midland, now called the Midland Center for the Arts, reminded me of Frank Wright. Anyways, a sitting room (or lounge or whatever he called it) had windows along one wall of which the bottom sills were level with a pond so that when you stood looking out you were eye-level with the surface of the pond! Probably not today, though.

I really don’t have any idea how Michigan is gonna dig out of this mess. Apparently no one else at this point does either.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Yes, but Boyce no longer owns them. The property owners group bought them 1-2 years ago. But the problems with the dam date back to at least the 1990s.

If this is so then the property owners are really screwed. I live on a way smaller version of that scenario. The people living around the pond I live on own the pond and environs. WE are, and have been responsible for the dams. We've spent 1.5 million over the last 10 years to repair and upgrade our dams.

Before Hurrican Floyd hit us with 16 inches of rain we had upgraded that dam. During the storm we had a minor end breach, an encroachment. Even though the State helped draw up our repair plan and approved it, WE were wholly responsible for the minor failure. The State just shrugged, issued the fines and moved on with litigation.

Whomever approved filling the lake will hold the owners responsible for the failure. I betcha a donut.

[Jeff Hail]

95 years old? Its tragic but long overdue. Two dams failed. Someone will get retirement. Throw in the past chemical brew on top of it adding to future horrors its horrific.

Oroville Dam in California is very similar construction. Double spill ways with center monument. It failed and they put a Band Aid on it. Another one coming (again). Too many engineers disagreed on repairing it versus teardown to be comfortable with it.

I live a few minutes from where the St. Francis dam failed. Me and my buddy Victor here have explored the site with much interest. The earth scars still present. The scour line still visible. Concrete chunks weighing 10,000lbs were found 3/4 mile down the riverbed. Drained 55 miles to the Pacific Ocean. You can not imagine the scale of that valley until you stand on top of what's left of the wing dyke and look out in the distance.

Everything is temporary...including dams.

[URY914]

I heard today in an interview that the mayor said the dam was privately owned.

[fintstone]

https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2020/05/19/edenville-feds-revoked-michigan-dam-license-in-2018-failure-to-safely-pass-flood-flows/

Both the Edenville and Sanford Dams are owned by a private company, Boyce Hydro LLC, as part of a four-dam complex. The FERC revoked the company’s license to operate the Edenville Dam in September 2018. The order says that Boyce Hydro failed to address deficiencies in the dam spillway for the 14 years in which it had the license:

FERC concluded that “revoking the license will leave the community and state agencies increased authority to deal with Boyce Hydro’s noncompliance.” Oversight of the dam falls under the responsibility of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, though local county governments also have significant responsibility for inland dams.

[MBAtarga]

I heard this area flooded a few years ago in what was called a 100 year flood. Water levels were expected to be about 4-5' ABOVE those levels this time, so the Gov called this a 500 year flood.

[A930Rocket]

Who ever thought an earthen dam was a good idea anyway? Maybe for a koi fish pond.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Who ever thought an earthen dam was a good idea anyway? Maybe for a koi fish pond.

About 5 years ago my largest 1 acre pond began to lower faster than the spring output. Not at the dam, but along one side....pond is older than anyone here. The culprit....a tree root the size of my wrist...took me months to locate the leak and finally stop it...fun times

[mattdavis11]

We had one designed by the corps fail about a year ago, 90yr old dam. 3 others were built the same way at the roughly the same time on the same river.

Homeowners are holding up repairs/replacement in court citing property value, bla, bla, bla. Feckem, fix it, I just got a boat and want to put it in the water and run it. That might take years now. Lakes (river) are closed for the time being.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

I heard this area flooded a few years ago in what was called a 100 year flood. Water levels were expected to be about 4-5' ABOVE those levels this time, so the Gov called this a 500 year flood.

I've read somewhere that Atlanta gets some of the heaviest rainfall in the country.
Even more than Seattle...

The heavy red clay seems to reject and divert it all away from being stored in reservoirs would be my guess.

There are entire departments which specialize in this, so they would probably know better.
(Elevation mapping and strategic planning are known quantities to putting all the simple pieces together.)

And yet humanity still continues to build below sea level, pile skyscrapers on top of swamp mud islands, right under mountain mud faces, and other nonsense.

[KFC911]

I remember a localized heavy rain one summer around 1970 here. The old timers had never seen anything like it since 1900.....flooded the lower areas for miles around and became big deep lakes for a day or so. That area was all rolling hills and farmland back then. None of it is marked as a potential flood zone today....just full of subdivisions, etc. now. It WILL happen again....even worse...eventually. Mother Nature don't play nice sometimes....

[daepp]

Seems to me Lansing (and TBH, Sacramento) might should be spending a little more on things that don't get their faces in the papers...

[CurtEgerer]

In reading more on this as new info comes out, Boyce still owns the dams. The property owners group has a purchase agreement but had been in charge of operations and paid for the recent (non-structural) repairs - how does that work?? The sale was not scheduled to be finalized until later this year. So the waters are muddied further, so to speak.

Also, the State of Michigan is neck-deep in this thing. MI Attny General sued Boyce just 4 weeks ago for lowering the water level in the lake and exposing aquatic life to harm! So the State, knowing for years that the dam was structurally defective and a high hazard to the City of Midland and Dow Chemical demanded that the lake be full. Yet Gov Whitmer said she's considering legal action - against who, her own administration?

This entire thing is a cluster. A combination of a deadbeat owner and Federal, State, and County governments that were either incompetent or unwilling to shut down a defective dam. I guess they all had other priorities.

[MBAtarga]

Hum, Flint (MI) was the lead in the water fiasco - another bureaucracy fiasco. Now this? What's in common - Michigan?

[93nav]

Yeh, I deal with a company that is based in Sacramento, on a hunch I checked out their site on Google Earth. They are about 80 miles from San Fransisco Bay, but only at an elevation of 16 or 17 feet. And they are behind a earthen levee. Over time I have heard repeat comments that the levee's in CA are not being maintained properly.

And then there is the 1862 flood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood_of_1862

Originally Posted by daepp

Seems to me Lansing (and TBH, Sacramento) might should be spending a little more on things that don't get their faces in the papers...

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by mbatarga

hum, flint (mi) was the lead in the water fiasco - another bureaucracy fiasco. Now this? What's in common - michigan?

Mebbe it's H2O

[CurtEgerer]

This just keeps getting worse. At first I figured the circumstances leading up to the dam collapse were a major SNAFU by the DEQ (now the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy), something the Governor would likely have little direct knowledge of. Now we find out her and her AG have been actively involved in this since they took office 2 years ago. And that the owner Boyce (no saint by anyone's account) had lowered the water level 8 feet last fall in an effort to safeguard against failure. The Governor sued him to fill it back up.

By inference of demanding it be filled, the State is now claiming the dam was not a potential danger, despite failing their own inspections and the Federal inspections for 20 years. Good luck with that as a defense.

Edenville fell short of a federal requirement that dams that pose a significant danger to the public must be equipped to handle the largest predictable storm, called a “probable maximum flood” or PMF. Edenville’s spillway capacity could only handle about half that level

https://www.mlive.com/news/2020/05/owner-of-failed-dam-state-fought-over-wixom-lake-levels-before-flood.html

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by 93nav

Yeh, I deal with a company that is based in Sacramento, on a hunch I checked out their site on Google Earth. They are about 80 miles from San Fransisco Bay, but only at an elevation of 16 or 17 feet. And they are behind a earthen levee. Over time I have heard repeat comments that the levee's in CA are not being maintained properly.

And then there is the 1862 flood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood_of_1862

Dams are a risk issue all over the country.

Infrastructure matters, even if maintenance is not sexy

[Jolly Amaranto]

A similar conflict is going on in Texas. Property owners sue to keep authorities from draining lakes behind dangerous 90 year old dams.

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/09/16/legal-settlement-halts-draining-four-texas-lakes/